Your brain wants to automate: Balancing Tech Innovation with Intentional Living

This is a killer episode. Join me now for a lovely conversation with Eric Scheinkoff, CEO of the Desire Company. This is a man who has literally run with the Olympic torch, been listed in under 30, tackless, T is an extraordinary creative, innovative human who is also deeply grounded in purpose, supporting the credibility and purpose of others and highlighting that and allowing himself to do that in his own life. The thing that is so striking about Eric is his comfort with stopping and pausing and really reflecting on whether what he's doing in the world is an alignment with who he is and what he cares about producing. Your nervous system sets the tone. Your energy speaks before you do. How you show up is the culture. I'm Dr. Tam's in Aster and this is Hot Habits, Conscious Leadership in Action. Welcome, welcome, Eric. When I first met you, I noticed your clothes immediately. You were rocking salmon pay parents and necklace and awesome cardigan and epic lustworthy Adidas sneakers and I immediately wanted to talk to you and I thought this is someone who knows exactly who he is and that turned out to be completely true. Eric Scheinkoff is the CEO and co-founder of the Desire Company, a visionary entrepreneur host of the podcast tap into an expert, a best-selling author, a tech innovator who spent his career building platforms that give artists, experts and credential professionals a bigger stage. From bridging independent musicians with global brands like Coca-Cola at the Olympics and FIFA World Cup to co-founding the Desire Company which connects shoppers with real experts across 150 industries, who's been recognized by Billboards 30 under 30, Crane's tech 50 and has won Cannes, Lions, Clio's and Emmy and he recently delivered a TEDx talk called When Convenience Becomes Control which I think is going to fascinate anyone who's ever wondered what we're actually losing as we optimize everything in our lives. Eric, welcome to Hot Habits. Thank you very much. That was the best intro I've ever had. That was excellent. Not really excited. It's fun to hear your resume in a little short, peppy way, sometimes isn't it and think, wow, look, listen to what I've done, right? It feels like it was yesterday that all that happened, but yeah, that's awesome. It was amazing. So at the start of every Hot Habits guest conversation, I asked my guest to bring an object with them, something that could represent a hot habit in their life and it's a way of bringing leadership out of theory and into everyday reality. So tell me, do you have an object with you today and what did you choose and why? My meditation timer and because I think it's the most important thing daily to do and it gets me into the day, it gets me ready for what I want to create that day going through what I want out of the day, what I want out of each meeting. So that is my hot habit. Amazing. I love it. We meditated together when we first met in LA and I like you, find it a real tone setter. For me, it was something that I really noticed it helped me work with the gap between stimulus and response, whether the stimulus was external drama in my life or the internal swirling thoughts and it creates that little pause before we go make the choice that is an alignment with who we are. I think it takes you from just waking up and life is happening to you as the participants to when you're meditating and you're taking that time to look at your day and think about life and the meetings you have come in all of a sudden you become the observer and then if you're an observer, then you could actually be the creator. Like, okay, well, how do I walk this to go as the participant? So I think it's the most important thing to set the stage for being more than something that's just going through the day and letting the day happen to you. You get to create the day. Right. So what you just identified which I think is really interesting and I think very pertinent to your journey is taking ownership of the creative process, right? Yes. Yes. Be that whatever you're creating, including life and including the life that you want to live from a meeting perspective to a day, a week, a month, a year and a lifetime. So I would love to go back to the beginning of Eric because one of the things that when I was researching this podcast that really kind of stood out for me is that you identified your purpose from a very young age. You know, you say that from seven years old, you were clear that you wanted to elevate people who'd work hard to master their craft and you really sort of zoned in on this and your success in business started at a very young age. So I'm curious partly because of what I do and also as the parent of three children, whether you were raised in an environment that, you know, supported and stimulated this kind of in and knowing, or perhaps this was just inherent to who you are as a human. It's interesting. It was like I would get unreasonably passionate and emotional when I would see people do something that was really hard to achieve from a very young age. And I mean, there's one there was one thing in particular. My parents took me to a play Janice Joplin and her struggle to then, you know, she kept on following her dream and her passion and then all of a sudden the start of working out. And my parents were like at a as a little boy, you were like unreasonably excited about that for her and like so happy for her. And I think that's been something that's always motivated me more than anything else is my enjoyment around watching other people kind of face difficulties and overcome them. And my first focus was really in music. And where, you know, to become a good musician is very difficult and to rise to the top because you're told no so many times and to get a gig and then get the next gig and the next gig is hard. And it doesn't pay you well and you're not making real money, but you keep on doing it. And that's to me the thing that was really motivating was to help elevate the people that were given at them all. They're all. And, you know, fast forward to now and what I've done my entire careers like look at these people who have tried an alternate route where most people around them would be telling them no like that's not a good idea that doesn't make sense like that's going to be too hard. Nobody succeeds in doing that. And the people that I work with today and represent today it's everybody from, you know, Rihanna's makeup artists to astronauts to Olympic athletes, dance or Lady Gaga's dance choreographer. And those people, you know, they rose to the top of their career, the absolute top. And it had to have been they had they've heard no so many times, but they just had this passion inside that kept on going. And I've always just been motivated about creating things to help them elevate. I love that. I mean, what strikes me about that is the sort of the chemistry that you create by identifying this this sort of burning in a desire within people and pulling it out and elevating it. Because I think for me, you know, one of the most the sort of core piece of my entire life personally professionally is relationships and that that space for connection and chemistry and synergy and seeing things in each other that you want to support and find out more about and create and you know, one of the first definitions I learned about coaching, which really stuck with me is that is except helping people except where they currently are, but seeing this bigger future version of themselves and helping them close that gap, right? Yeah, it's it's funny with a I have a daughter who's a sophomore in college and going to do a semester abroad and I have a daughter who's graduating high school. And I talked about that a lot is like, know who you are today and where who you want to be tomorrow. Because this is the time where you're not surrounded by judgment of people who knew you you're putting yourself into a new environment. You could be whoever you want. You could create the person that you want to be. But to do that, you have to accept and know who you are. Like, it's funny. We I had a long talk with my daughter last night because she has a job in college and she's a hostess and she didn't get invited to one of the like after our parties with these people and everything. And so she was upset. She was a little down about that. I mean, they're older and they're they're full time in the service industry. She's a student who's working on the side. And I was talking to her and she was like, well, I just wish that I could be invited and like, you know, whatever and whatever. And we had this long talk about is like understand who you are and what you want and you know, is that really what you want? And what do you if so? What what needs to be different? And how are you going to manage that? But but to do that, you have to really accept where you are. So I mean, this kind of leads into this interesting distinction, I think, where which we can get stuck on is like the difference between like living our purpose and being, you know, productive or being popular, right? Or, you know, doing the thing in the moment versus doing the thing that's for the bigger purpose. How do you know in your own body, in your own mind, when you're living on purpose versus just, you know, being productive? Flow. I mean, I get, you know, I'll just notice that I'm a little down and I'm not accomplishing everything that I want and things feel harder. And then they need to be and I'm getting stuck. And then I realize, okay, I need to step back and I'm not living with purpose right now. I'm just trying to get things done. And I think it's a constant battle. It's a constant challenge that we're always going through. And it could happen, you know, multiple times the day it could happen once a year, like it just depends. But there's definitely times where I get down because things aren't in flow, so to speak. And that is because I am, I got in a groove where I'm just being, I'm just, you know, blinders on and just accomplishing things rather than fulfilling. I mean, what's interesting about that too is that sort of speaks to automation and habit, right, which is like the place that I get excited about. And one of the things that I see with people is when we get very kind of as you describe, like blinkered and habit focused, we sometimes, we sometimes sort of lose our connection to our purpose or we lose our connection with other people, right? And so then that creates a, you know, as you say, it can be like a discomfort or whatever. And I think for me, when I was reading a little bit about your TEDx talk, but one of the things that really struck me was this, this idea of friction, right, which, you know, for me is really important in the world of habits because that's where we keep growing, right? You know, when you look at, for example, the aging population, a big study, this came out of Yale that showed that the people who continually put themselves in challenging environments, traveling to new countries, you know, reading maps, learning a new language, learning a new dance step, learning a new instrument, right? Those are the people who live well, live longer, live healthier, right? You meet that friction, right? So one of the things that you highlighted was this idea that friction has been engineered out of almost everything, right? Because, and that really like stopped me cold, because I thought a lot about this like automation and friction. What do you think? What do you think we lose when you could say neurologically, relationally, professionally, when, when things become frictionless? I think you nailed it. We stopped growing, right? And I think that's the, the whole point is these apps, these companies, these, I mean, you know, in my TED talk, I talk about whether it's is the route that Uber is taking, or the route that Ways is giving you really the most efficient route, or is it the one that advertisers are paying so that you drive by their restaurants, so you drive by their stores? I know for a fact, it's not the most efficient route, because I know where my house is, and I know, and I know where I live, and when I'm being sidetracked to go down a main street versus smaller streets that are going to get me there faster, like that's very intentional on their behalf. And I think the majority of the time we're not thinking about that. And we're just, again, like we're kind of on like this blinder autopilot, and that makes us, it's easy, right? And if it's easy, then we're not learning them, we're not growing, we're just going through the process, we're just a participant. And I think that is what's happening in life at large right now. I think that's, you know, that's corporations goal is just to get you to follow, you know, their goal is to make your life as easy as possible. And if it's easy as possible, you're not going to question anything, and they're going to make money because they get to get the advertising and all of that, but you, you start developing as a, as a human, as you mentioned. And that sort of relates, I think to this other thing that sort of popped out as I was researching you and thinking about what questions I wanted to, like pick your juicy rain about, which is that, you know, this to grow, to have the friction to take the other path requires two things. It requires us to slow down, right, which is not what the world wants. And it requires us to be intentional, right? We have to kind of create that space to go, what's happening here? What's the new thing? Why is this difficult? What's the new strategy? How can I apply this thing? How can I create the space for the new creative energy? And to me, that feels like it's almost in paradox with, you know, being a tech innovator, which is like what you, who you are and what you do, right? So like, to me, it's like, how do you hold this, this tension? And the reason I asked this is that duality in paradox is like for me, like the most fun place to play. So I'm curious about how you dance in that paradox of tech innovation and speed and efficiency and automation with slowness intentionality. Most of the time I'm walking contradictions. So, you know, I think that you nailed that. But one of the things is I've never, I've never done anything to make money off of consumers. Like I've never tried to create an app or a platform at anything that that charges consumers. I've only created platforms that help showcase unique talents and get them brand partnerships, get the money from corporations, from brands. So my first company, I created a platform and became the largest music licensing company in the world, where we had artists from, it was like 120 countries. And I would place them in, we were the largest provider of music to McDonald's and, and Viacab and HBO and CBS and Disney Coca-Cola. And that was the goal, like create a platform that they could showcase their talents on a global scale, but specifically to corporations who needed music. And now I'm doing something similar with, with, again, like it doesn't matter if it's a NASA astronaut or a scientist or a veterinarian or an Olympic athlete or a trainer or a dietitian to showcase, you know, a platform to, to highlight and showcase their talent to find the right brand for them to partner with that brand pays them to, for their knowledge, for their hard wanted knowledge. And so it's a platform to honor expertise. And, and so that is very aligned with, with my goals in life and, and my reason for being in life, I will say though that it wasn't that clean of a start, like I was doing something originally with this platform. All right, so I sold my company and then I, I couldn't work in the music industry for four years. And that was devastating to me. Like I hadn't, I didn't see it coming. I didn't know what that meant. It was the only thing I knew. So when I started this company now, it was a very different angle. And it made me unhappy. Like I was just not fulfilled. Like I was, it was starting to have some success. And I was like this sucks. Like this is not, not how I want to spend my days. And so, you know, I stepped back and, and had to remind myself why I exist in the world. And we had to do a big pivot as to, okay, well, how can we use the energy that we've used, you know, created already in this platform to pivot it back into something that's going to be more meaningful, which will give me a better sense of purpose. I mean, and I think one of the things when I read what the desire company is about, to me, it feels very aligned with how we started, which is, you know, the passion you felt as a seven year old, right? Seeing this extraordinary community and that what seems to be the kind of core theme of the desire company and correct me if I'm wrong is that credibility beats popularity, right? It's about being an expert, right? So it's kind of replacing the influencer who's like sharing somebody else's stuff, right? With no, you're like, I recognize you as the person who's credible, the expert, the person who really knows, knows your subject area, knows your content, knows your product. And that those are the people that you are highlighting. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I have despised the influencer industry. I think it is bad for everybody, including the influencers. I think that they're growing up in a world that's not sustainable. And their ambitions are not something that's totally unrealistic. And it's going to be very short lived in the grand scheme of things. And I, I mean, I just hate it. Like, I hate the fact that somebody's like, Hey, guys, I just got to send this product, like, look how cool it is. And then people go and waste their money on it without knowing what it is or how it's going to help them or improve their lives in any way. So being able to partner that product with an expert who's able to talk about like, Oh, yeah, this is how to use it. This is the results that you could expect. And here's what I recommend it for. Not only is it a better experience for the shopper, it's better credibility for the brand because you're lending your, as an expert, you're lending your credibility to that brand. And then the expert, they get this opportunity to showcase something because they've been left out and told that they're less than because they don't have a million followers. Like most are, most of our experts don't even have social media. And that was a huge point of concern with a lot of our investors and everything of that nature. And they're like, how are you going to compete with these people who are selling their followers? They're selling their eyeballs. And as I word, taking a totally different approach, and that takes a much longer time and it's harder. But when you start to break through, it has more sustainability and longevity. Yeah, no, and I mean, and it also sort of ties into this theme that emerged in your TEDx talk, right, about relationships and who's who, like, which relationship are you prioritizing, right? Because, you know, when I, you know, I have a 16 year old daughter, right? And so, of course, she's got more makeup than I've ever owned in my entire life, right? Because she lives in that TikTok world, right? And she sees all these things and gets sucked into these, you know, subscriptions and this new highlighting, whatever thing, right? And so when I think about it, I think about, you know, that it's really about who are you having cultivating the relationship with? And, and how, what's it driven by? Right? What are you getting out of it? And who, who, who's benefiting, right? The money, the evil corporations, whatever we can go into that. But the thing that, was struck by this comment you made is that relationships that can't be automated are the ones that hold us together. And I was like, ooh, I find that really interesting because, you know, as somebody I got divorced 12 years ago, I've moved a number of times, you know, the thing that has kept me going, the things that have really sort of restored me in my life have been my relationships. My relationships are the most important thing. And I grew up in a home where that was very much modeled for me. My mom said as a kid to me, you know, share what you find hard because that's all you'll deeply connect. And I'm somebody who doesn't really have relationships with people where it's all surface because if people are not willing to go deep and say, that's bullshit, like I don't buy that, you know, I'm not interested. I want people to go deeper. So I'm curious about, you know, since you highlighted that, like, what does that look like in your life? This kind of these relationships that are not automated, but are mental to you. I think that the technology today is trying to make it feel like it's helping us create more relationships. But what is actually doing is making every relationship surface, a surface relationship. When you and I met in LA, I was at that event. And I was supposed to see one of my friends that evening. And he texted me. He said that, you know, his mother is, she was going into hospice and like, it was really hard for him. And like, all of this and he just couldn't, he couldn't get out. Like, there was too much going on and he's running around and he really wanted to. But he just, his family's overwhelmed right now. And I was, I didn't want to be rude and be on my phone. So I saw that pop up. I looked at it and then offered an automated response that said, I'm sorry to hear that. And I just pressed it. And so I sent him, I'm sorry to hear that. That was it. And then I didn't contact him for like several days afterwards because the job was done. I responded to him. But he must have thought like, wow, I just poured my heart out to somebody I've known all my life. And that was his BS response. Like what, what a jerk. And so, you know, the, the emotional connection, the bond, like we, we lose it when we, when we have technology automated our relationships for us. Like, who's in that relationship? It wasn't me. That wasn't my response. Like, that was what my phone suggested I say. And because I didn't type it out and I didn't write it where I didn't say it, it didn't connect with me. So I didn't even remember that his mother went into a hospice. Like, I didn't even recall any of this like two weeks after that event because I wasn't emotionally attached to that response. So, you know, what it, what it looks like more than anything is making efforts to actually speak out of the phone. And this is something that I, that I talked to my daughters a lot because they are automating everything, every relationship. And they'll be like, oh, yeah, I spoke to Grammy today. I was like, you spoke to her because she said you didn't. And there's like, yeah, I texted her. And yeah, huge difference. And like, I bet you, as they were typing, and they were just hitting buttons to fill in the sentence that a phone is suggesting. So they're not even showing up in that relationship. And it's felt like we feel it. We know it. So I think that we're living in a world where where like the goal is to have as many friends as possible. But the technology is making it. So we can have that on a numbers level, but not on a meaningful level. That's tough. I've had an interesting experience recently with, I was diagnosed with ADHD two years ago, which has been such a game, genuine understanding how I moved through the world. But rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which is one of the features of ADHD, which is this, you know, whether it's the sort of squint or the not returning a call or a text or whatever. And people with ADHD, like it hits us in a totally different way and it's builds up the scar tissue of like, trauma and I had a girlfriend who kept saying to me, like, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot, must be my undiagnosed ADHD. And she kept saying it. And I ended up feeling like she was minimizing my actual diagnosis, right? And so she's somebody who I really value and I have a really good friendship with. And so I was sitting there thinking, how do I raise this in a way that's thoughtful and kind. And so I actually did something unusual and for the first time, which was I put this dilemma into cord. And I said, this is like, help me phrase a way of saying, I love you, I get it. But like, if you want to say this, go, go to a doctor and get diagnosed. I'm actually living with this and it impacts my life. And it was actually really helpful to have this kind of pre-conversation using technology, right? To get to this point. And so, you know, with this back and forth, I was able to kind of figure out what were the things that were really important to me because she and I committed to having what we call a spiritual friendship. We're both Buddhists. And that really means that we kind of we flag the stuff that hurts each other when we hurt each other and that we're not going to brush that under the carpet. And it was really helpful and I, you know, and I raised it and, you know, she was able to say, oh, that happened in my marriage. I was middleized by my partner and I know what that feels like. And it was, and it was really interesting and helpful for me to, you know, have that space to kind of so that I didn't end up saying something that came out wrong, right? I've seen that exact thing. So my older daughter who I was saying was upset about being rejected from this party. She has ADHD. And when she was diagnosed, her little sister would would minimize, minimize it so much. And it was really, it was really hard. But that's a that's very, very interesting. But yeah, you got it. You got to talk about it. You got to be honest with it. And it's also funny. The pre-conversation usually happens in your head and you're only having one response to it. But if you're, you know, my wife does it constantly, where if she's upset with me instead of saying anything, first she'll have the conversation with AI and get different perspectives. And she'll be like, help me understand his perspective. And she's done it enough now where like her AI knows me too. And so say, well, here's probably where he's coming from. And he doesn't mean what you think and like blah, blah, blah, blah. So you know, that's like, that's a beautiful part of AI. There are of technology. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the upside, definitely the upside. So, you know, what this is making me think of too, given like the world we live in is are like metrics, right? Like what we, how we quantify and qualify like what is a good relationship? What is a good sales funnel? What is a good TEDx tour? Right? How do I quantify and qualify my purpose? I was thinking about this when I, you know, had that you, you know, you, you'd literally run with the Olympic torch. I'm missing that on like LinkedIn being like, wow. What's the metric that you care about most that maybe you've never thought to measure or that you can't measure or that you're kind of first thing with measuring, but you're not quite sure how, is there, is there a metric that pops out? Yeah, I mean, that's, that's family and how they feel. And I, I, I kind of, I laugh at the fact that when I was little, like I would do everything that I thought was like cool, so that girls would fall in love with me. And like, you know, how, uh, you know, whenever a girlfriend and this and that, and it's funny because it's not all that different, but instead of that, it's just about my family. I just want them to be excited and happy and fulfilled and safe. Um, and that's, I mean, that's what it, what's it about? And, and to me, that's given me a lot of freedom in work because you realize like all those other metrics are complete garbage. Like they don't really matter. They're not even real. Uh, the metrics my board holds, holds me accountable to is they're not real. Like it's, it's like, oh, well, you know, your numbers, this, that they, whatever, we're building something. It's working. People are happy. It's, it's, it's great. You know, some wants to move faster than than others and others, it doesn't move as fast as we wish, but those metrics are just, you know, we'd stuck them on paper and, and to, to get so upset and worried about, um, living your life to hit those, it just doesn't make sense. And that, I mean, that's a big difference between my, my first company and not understanding the dynamics with the board and, and all of that, um, to, to now, it's like, well, the metrics that matter is that my, my, my family is, is, uh, living off of filled life. So that's, that leads me to a really interesting or a place that I'm interested to, to understand a little bit more about you, which is about leadership, right? Because what you're really identifying there is your leadership journey in recognizing the metrics that you value, the ones that you recognize at the outside, world values and like, we'll hold you accountable to, um, and, um, the sort of the dance that we talked about of the, or the sort of the paradox of, you know, being slow and automation, right? Um, when did you really first understand the impact of your leadership? Was there a moment or a story when you sort of suddenly had this like, oh, if I'd done it this way, it might have gone, but I did it that way and it went. Yeah, and I think a lot of that happened in my first company, because it was just a very organic and natural thing, but then all of a sudden, and I was young, like I was, you know, early 20s, and, and we were having a lot of success, and then I took money, and I raised like nine million dollars and, uh, hired all my friends and everything, and, and we built this amazing, amazing company, but, um, a lot of it went to my head, a lot of it, I didn't understand the responsibility, a lot of it, I would try to, uh, pawn off the responsibility on somebody else, um, or, you know, hold managers in different departments more accountable than myself. Um, so I, I think that that's been a big learning, and, and part of that is, I mean, it's kind of like that, a contradiction, but I used to micromanage a lot. Um, and now it's like, well, if I hire somebody who's an expert at what they do, I got to honor the fact that they know a lot more about this than me, and that's the idea. Like, I was actually intimidated in my first company, about hiring people that I thought were smarter than me. And now it's like the only thing I want to do is find people who are better than me and smarter than me in whatever area that might be and let them go and build, um, and get out of their way. And I also think like that's, that's really helped me decide the right investors to take on the right board number. Like I had the worst board in the world, uh, my first company, like horrible. Like I, it would give me incredible. I wouldn't sleep for like the week before a board meeting. It was awful. They were just mean, uh, and that really helped me say, like, okay, well, if I'm going to take money for this, all money is not created equal. Like I want the right person behind the money. Um, and, uh, and we've built that and we have people who are, yes, the metrics are important. We are measured by it. We phrase, you know, $30 million for this company. Like there's, that's serious money. Uh, and I have to be accountable and responsible. But the success and measurements of success aren't just those, those, you know, week over week numbers on paper. There's a lot more that shows you we're doing well or not to win. Well, um, and I don't really know how to, how to communicate that except just, it is what it is. Yeah. No, I think what's interesting is I sort of think about the arc of our conversation is that you are somebody who is very comfortable kind of taking a, taking a beat and stepping back and going, how do I feel about this? Is this having the impact I want? Is this affecting the right people? Am I in alignment with my purpose, my values, my vision with what I say I'm trying to do in the world? And then making a change because I think I see a lot of people who say it, but then they do it. There's like a misalignment between words and actions or values and actions. And what I know from, you know, coaching people for 15 years is that we build self trust when we, when we say an act in alignment with our values, right? When we say this is important to me and, right? And I do it. When we don't, that's when we kind of destroy ourselves from within, right? And we create burnout and our relationships crumble and we don't feel good in ourselves. And that seems to me to be like a sort of core theme of the way you've moved through life is your willingness to stop pause reflect pivot based on how you're feeling within you and what's happening around you. Yeah, I mean, actually, and it's a constant journey too, where I think I'm always improving in that area, but there's a long way to go. But I mean, even a couple of months ago, I wrote out like, I life manifesto like what's important to me? What do I believe? What do I think? And that allowed me to create a document of what do I say yes to and what do I say no to? It all aspects of life. Like if it does this and it fulfills this, but that's just a surface level vanity thing, dancers, no. And that has helped so much because recently I had a friend come to me with this incredible opportunity and, you know, she wanted to do this big project and she's like, I need you on board and some help. And typically that would be the thing. It would be a big vanity play and ego play. And typically I would jump at something like that. And like I was able to reflect and think about it and look at my document. And I was like, it checks these boxes and it doesn't check these boxes. So the answer is no. And I wrote her an email and I was like, look at this point in my life, like I just need to do things that I'm passionate about and that I feel fulfilled in this and that. And she was like, I really respect that answer. You know, if you ever change your mind, you know, blah, blah, blah, but it's helpful to be able to step back and have some type of guides for yourself to help you make those decisions of where we put our energy and where we put our time. Absolutely. I 100% agree. I often do that with my clients. One about, you know, having it again, I get and she's, you know, AI, but having a conversation about what depletes me, right? Because again, we have this idea that I'm good at it or it makes me money therefore I should do it or it's expected of me or I'm trained in it or this is what my gender role fill in the black, right? We get into all these goods that we do it. But then when we actually step back and think, she, this is exhaust me doing this really depletes me and that doesn't allow me vent to show up. For me, the most important thing in the for the relationships that I value, right? Like my family heads, my partner, my clients. Yeah. No, I love this. I love this. Well, I could keep talking to you all day, but I want to wrap this up and kind of dive us towards the end. So I think one of the things I would love for you to reflect on Eric is if our hot habit listeners take just one thing from our conversation and that could be an insight, a shift or a habit, what would that be? It's what you just identified, which is taking time to step back and assess how it's making you feel internally, whatever you're doing. Even if it feels successful, even if it feels right, your body will tell you if it is or if it isn't, you'll be more tired. Whatever it is, taking that step back and being the observer of your life for a second, watching you from the outside and thinking about, okay, is this the life that I want? Is this the thing that I want? Is this the activity that I want? And if not, you get to be the creator and change it. And that's what I love. That's what I hope people are able to do. Well, that's amazing. That ties us exactly back to where we started, which was your meditation timer as your hot habits object, which gives you the space to daily sit with being the creator of your life. Hey, man. Yeah, you're amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today, Eric, on hot habit. Thank you, Dr. Townsend. Yeah, this is wonderful. Thank you very much. It's like a nice therapy session to start the day. You're welcome. That was amazing. Thank you. I really enjoyed our conversation and enjoyed your journey. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for being here and thank you for taking the time to listen. Until next time, remember that the way you lead your inner world shapes how you lead on the outside. I'm Dr. Townsend Esther. Thanks for listening to hot habits.