Why Your Marketing Might Feel Icky with Tarzan Kay

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If you are in the world of internet marketing, you may have come across her epic way of teaching consent-based marketing, where you've felt that pressure to buy because there's a countdown clock, there's a sale ends tonight, there's a you need this element.

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and you've felt a sense of recoiling constriction, nervous system dysregulation.

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Maybe you've bought programs because you felt pressured into them and they've sat in some online portal and you've never accessed them.

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Maybe you are somebody who has felt the ick with the vulnerable share trauma dump and then here's my solution.

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If that's your experience, listen to this episode.

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Tarzan Kay is the queen of consent-based marketing.

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Sit down and buckle up.

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This is a thoughtful, reflective, juicy conversation with Tarzan Kay.

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Your nervous system sets the tone.

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Your energy speaks before you do.

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How you show up is the culture.

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I'm Dr. Tam Zanasta, and this is Hot Habits, conscious leadership in action.

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Hello, hello and welcome.

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Or maybe I should say buckle up because I need to tell you about the first time I met Tarzan Kay, or rather the first time she wrecked my inbox and I fucking loved it.

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I stumbled onto Tarzan years ago inside an Amy Porterfield training and watching the way this woman wrote copy that educated me, sold to me, and somehow never made me feel like a mark was something new.

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If you spent any time online, you know this is basically a magic trick.

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We've all had enough of that trauma, dump, then pitch you special.

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Tarzan does not do that.

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She built an empire and a career proving you can sell without the slime.

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Here's her actual resume.

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She made millions on the internet, running one of the most scaled email marketing launches you've probably never heard of, clinked glasses with the president of the Dude Bros, and then walked away from this whole seven-figure work from anywhere fever dream to build something smaller, weirder, and infinitely more honest.

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Now she runs small bespoke containers where she teaches business owners to write story-driven emails people actually want to open and to sell using consent-based copywriting.

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Groundbreaking concept, ask before you take someone's money.

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I've watched this play out in two directions.

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One of my closest friends joined her tiny coaching group and hasn't shut up since about the depth and the connection and the support inside it.

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The kind of container people usually claim, but rarely do build.

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And then last year, Tarzan turned up in a facilitation community that I've been a part of for about five years, one where music and singing are stitched right into the work.

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So she's not another girl boss with a launch funnel and a ring light.

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She's real, she's funny, and she's genuine.

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Please welcome the one and only Tarzan Kay.

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Oh my God, what an amazing intro, Tamsin.

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I don't think anyone's ever written something that beautiful and thoughtful.

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I deeply, it is deeply appreciated.

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Oh, thank you.

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I've meant all of it because that's really important to me that you feel seen and that I show that as part of this whole conversation.

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It's working.

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Thank you.

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You're welcome.

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So the way I start my Hot Habits episodes is to...

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ask my guests to show or share a concrete, tangible, hot habit item.

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That's something that is a way of bringing leadership out of the theory in our heads into the everyday reality.

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So tell me what object did you bring and why did you choose it?

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Okay, well, are we on video?

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We're not on video, right?

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We are.

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We are on video.

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Yeah.

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Okay, great.

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Okay, well, this is just going to look like a boring old notebook.

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It's a basic moleskin that I got in someone's gift bag.

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But on the first page of this notebook, there is, okay, right now there are 44 songs.

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Okay.

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But I'm on a mission to learn 100 songs, like from memory, really simple songs that I could teach like anywhere I go.

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So like one of my personal hot habits is singing and like starting the day with singing, like bringing song into any place.

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moment of my life.

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Like I'm doing dishes.

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I could sing like, there is work to be done.

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You know, I'm like, I'm sad.

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I'm in a sad moment.

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I have a grief song.

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So that's a personal habit, but it's also everywhere I go, whether it's like a business event or someone's birthday party to bring songs with me and to remind people

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that singing is for everyone, that it's not for people who have degrees or people who have good voices, people have talent, like singing is like breathing, like it is a birthright that belongs to all of us.

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So that's my hot habit.

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I love that.

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And I love that for two reasons.

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One is I was, I was in musicals and played musical instruments as a kid.

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And then I got to that point, like art, where I started comparing myself to others and realized that I was pretty mediocre.

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And I stopped because of that fear of like, you know, I'm going to lean in with our culture.

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I'm going to lean into the shit that I'm really good at.

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Yeah.

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And in the last few years, I've been diving back into that.

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And I bought myself an electric guitar to learn.

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And I've been playing the piano again.

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And my cousin gave me his old drum kit, all things I used to do when I was younger.

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And I love that reminder of accessing something and leaning into something that so many of us feel like or a teacher tells us we're not good or a parent.

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You know, we sort of shut down and go, that's not my lane.

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So thank you for holding that mirror up again.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Awesome.

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So a lot of what you stand for in your work, and I think also just in the way you live, is...

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using the language of consent in the way you sell.

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And one of the things, you know, for any of us who've been selling and working online for many years is this sort of the hustle culture, the boss babe, the kind of, you know, bro marketing, you know, in the habit space, it's always like the 5 a.m. wake up, the, you know, the ice plunge, the meditate, the get your creatine in, you know.

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You coined the term consent-based copywriting.

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What does consent feel like in your nervous system versus the sort of fake, you know, consent that sometimes dressed up as empowerment?

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Yeah.

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Hmm.

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Interesting question.

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Okay.

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Well, first I'll say I don't, I didn't invent consent-based marketing.

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Okay.

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I don't know who did, but I know it wasn't me.

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I know the words being passed around.

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Um, and just to offer like a definition, if we think about, um,

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I don't know, maybe 15 years ago, Seth Godin wrote a book about permission marketing.

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And it was a pretty revolutionary idea, which was that you get permission before marketing to someone.

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And now it seems obvious because everybody asks, will you join my email list?

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And when we get unsolicited marketing, like that idea has like profoundly changed everything.

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the industry.

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When you get something you didn't ask for, you're like, blech, what is this?

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This is spam.

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This is dirty.

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Get this out of my inbox.

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However, we have also found a lot of ways around the permission piece.

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One example is take this freebie.

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We even call them bribes in the industry.

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It's like bribe someone to get the yes to get on your email list.

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So consent-based marketing goes a layer past permission-based marketing.

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And if you think about the principles of consent, it has to be ongoing.

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It has to be revocable.

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There has to be a way for people to say no.

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Because if you can't say no, you can't say yes.

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So that might look like turning off promotions.

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When I do promo emails, they have a button at the top that's like, turn off this promo.

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You stay on the email list.

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Just allowing more choice.

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And like one of the big sort of biggest levers of persuasion or of this like old style of marketing that some people would call bro marketing.

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is layering on so much persuasion that your nervous system is overloaded.

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It's like there's a countdown timer, there's a message saying what this means about me if I don't purchase this product.

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Also, it says there's only a certain number of spots left.

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None of these things alone are bad.

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I use countdown timers now and then.

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But it's like when we layer so many on top of each other and also create a message for someone who's often vulnerable, like very pain based, like and then add all these elements of persuasion.

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What happens is we get like, I would almost say flooded and we no longer have access to our critical thinking ability.

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It's like I'm uncomfortable with.

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I want this vision so badly and I'm, this promotion is making me so uncomfortable.

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I'm just going to like buy it and make it go away.

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And that's why like many people in the industry have, I mean, many of like my clients and students who I've seen over the years, it's like, they have so much guilt about all the programs that they purchased and then like never even opened.

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And sometimes it's legitimately because in the internet marketing world, like 99% of the education is about marketing and 1% is about delivery.

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So sometimes it's a bad product, but oftentimes for the most part, it's like the, um, the marketing is like so overwhelming.

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It just like.

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hijacks your system.

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And then you're making a decision that is not based on fact, that is not based on what's, you're like disconnected from your own body.

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And you just like say yes.

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to make the noise of this machine go away.

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And then on the other side of it, you're like, oh fuck, like what did I buy?

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Right.

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And you know what's interesting is you're talking about this.

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It makes me think a lot, you know, cause I have three, you know, young adult humans and we've had lots of conversations about consent in terms of sexuality and sex and physical and sexual intimacy, right?

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And what you're talking about reminds me a lot of the languaging, you know, where it's,

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where, you know, somebody will just keep asking again and again and pushing and pushing.

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And so, you know, in their eyes, they don't often understand and see that they are coercing somebody into an action.

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Right.

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And for me, there's something really interesting about this connection between how we show up in our personal lives versus how we show up in our business.

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And to me, this speaks to a lot of how we educate and support and nurture that in our in our private lives, too.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Like I talk about this same thing with my sons about consent and that consent doesn't always just like a yes doesn't indicate consent.

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Just the same as like someone like there, there's definitely buyer like responsibility.

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Like we all, we are also many of us operating from a place of like, uh, you know, we're not grounded in our bodies.

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We're like not tuned into our own system.

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So like there's definitely two, uh,

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people at play here so that we can we can come back to that later but yes it's also a conversation I have with my sons it's like is someone might be saying yes but you have to like tune into their body and see that like they're not really a yes yeah conversely yeah I guess I guess what we're talking about is like also making it safe to say no so that's something that for me shows up on sales calls like I do not

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accept payments on a sales call.

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Even when someone is like excited and they're like, I feel like it's a yes.

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There's always, I always give them like a 24 hour window and I will always say like, when should I follow up about this?

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Like the follow up and asking for the sale is really important, but giving space

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for there to be a full no or a full yes.

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And that doesn't, like for me, a one hour or a 45 minute sales call, there's not really enough space for that.

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So making it safe to say no, like you say, the rules of the body also apply to the rules of consent in internet marketing.

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So as you were talking, the other thing that I was thinking about this, because it's this sort of constant practice, right?

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And it can change mid-flow.

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Like, I want to stay on your email list, but I want to remove myself from this promotional marketing sequence.

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Do you have a personal habit, like a literal daily practice that keeps you asking permission instead of assuming it?

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So you keep in tune with this practice yourself?

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So that I'm listening for my own consent, like my rules of consent for myself or for my customers.

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For yourself, so that you can sit there and feel and trust your yeses and nos to, whether it's like, you go into a cafe and somebody's going, oh, you really should try this new matcha la-da-da-da-da-da.

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And you're thinking, I came in here for a cup of coffee.

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And am I being, just so that constant internal practice of what you do in the world.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well, one thing I want to say is I don't think we ever like arrive and we're like, I have mastered this.

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Like I've just been talking to my partner about like impulse buying and he was like, okay.

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So, cause I spent like $150 on like some really crap coffee.

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Like I went, I went on this website and I got like totally sold by the marketing and it looked so good.

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And I just like had a moment of like, I don't know, I spent $150.

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The coffee's terrible.

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The marketing is really good.

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And he was like, oh, uh, next time, like, why don't you just like call me first?

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Like when you're gonna make a purchase, like just call me.

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And like, that would be really hard thing to do, like to stop myself in that moment of like, I'm going to get a huge dopamine hit from like spending this money right now.

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So, you know, there's places that I'm good at it and places that I'm not.

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But in my own business, I have had like a 10 year 10 year business relationship with my wife.

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sort of second in command, although I don't think of her as second.

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Her name is Sandra.

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She's been my OBM for 10 years.

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And for me,

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like smaller purchasing decisions.

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And of course that's subjective for, you know, everybody gets to define what's small, what's big, but for like a larger purchasing decision that will have an impact on the company, I always talk to her first.

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I don't make that decision by myself, even though it's my company and it's my name on the bank accounts and the tax statements and all that stuff.

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But like checking in with someone else before making a purchase,

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critical.

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And I've done that for so many years that I know what Sandra's going to say.

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Like, she's going to, she's going to say like, why is now the right time?

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And, um, you know, there's, there's like a sort of a checklist of questions.

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So I'll go to her and I'll say, cause sometimes it's like, this doesn't make sense financially, but it makes sense energetically.

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So I have to like go make the case to her with her logical, practical brain.

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And say like, this is, even though this doesn't quite make sense, like, this is why I think now is the time.

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This is like where, how I think I'm going to get the money back or like to like step back and make a,

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more sort of logical argument so that I'm not making a purchase just because like I'm excited and, you know, there's like a big thrill if you're gonna spend like a 10, you know, let's say you're gonna spend $10,000.

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Like, it's definitely thrilling in the moment.

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You're like excited with all this possibility and like, oh, your brain's all lighting up.

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Just to step back like that's the same thing I was saying about the sales calls like giving my clients just a time to like go away.

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Think about it, sleep on it and then come back and talk about it.

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I do that for myself, too.

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I.

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Like, I don't want to say never, but it is a huge part of my life's work is educating people on the mechanics of persuasion and how to save yourself from impulse buys.

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So I'm pretty good in the internet marketing world.

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Like I don't impulse buy because I have those tricks in place.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, no, and that's interesting is you describe that my sort of next kind of follow on question is, what led you there?

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Did you have like one awful moment that you just thought like a sort of whiplash moment of like, Oh, I have to step back like this whole structure and system that you know, dude, bro, boss, you know, boss, babe, like whatever, that that's that world was just not for you?

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Or is it sort of more like, you know,

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sort of like a building up of an allergy.

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And it was just these little bits of erosion, irritation, and it built up and it built up and you just got to this point where you were like, no.

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What was your journey towards this?

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Well, there were many moments along the way, but my first couple of years in internet marketing, I was very successful at it, very fast.

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And I really thought that

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it just worked that way for everyone.

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I was like, well, I followed the system.

220
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Like I learned about funnels.

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I learned about like emails and sales pages and webinars and like automated automations and all that stuff.

222
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And so I just went out there and did it and it worked.

223
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And, um, but then I,

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You know, I know this is true of any of all businesses, but it is especially true in internet marketing.

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Like most people will not be successful at it.

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It's hard.

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Like it looks like easy money.

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It's like really hard to make easy money.

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So for years, like, you know, very quickly I started teaching internet marketing.

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And then

231
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I just couldn't wrap my head around how few people were successful at it.

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And even sometimes when I would look at someone's funnel and I'd be like, yeah, this is really good.

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I just, like,

234
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couldn't continue, you know, after like three, four, maybe four years, I couldn't continue to tell myself that like, I was the most successful because I was just like the best at it.

235
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And the other thing is so many people would come through my world and they would just be like, I feel so resistant to marketing.

236
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Like I can't do this thing that you're telling me to do.

237
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And at that time, like the answer that was given to those people and that I was taught to give to those people was like, this is a mindset issue.

238
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Like you've got to like go, you know, everybody was like taking this famous program about like money stories.

239
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Money stories are real.

240
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I don't doubt that.

241
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But I also think like that's, it is a yes and.

242
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Like you are tuned into something here.

243
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And that, it took me years.

244
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to unpack like what, cause I, it all worked for me and I didn't really, I was like, I think, I don't know.

245
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It's like a little weird, but it's like, not that weird.

246
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I remember the time I was watching my sister read a sales page of one of my clients and she's like scrolling the sales page.

247
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It's like going on forever.

248
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And it gets to the bottom and it says, uh, $1,800.

249
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And then there's a strike through and it's like $67 today only.

250
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And my sister's like, that's ridiculous.

251
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I'm like, oh, oh, that's, yeah.

252
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Like that is ridiculous.

253
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Yeah.

254
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I'm like in this world, so I can't see it.

255
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So I just like many years of people saying the same thing, like number one, realizing that in a very, in the slowest way, not the slowest way possible, but over the course of many years that like my charisma, my beauty, my whiteness, my thinness, like so many of these like dominant identities I hold, my education, my access to like my access to money, like all of these things,

256
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that play into my success that people, you know, just makes it like one, a fraction harder for those, like trying to do what I do that don't have, you know, one or two of those things.

257
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Yeah.

258
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So understanding the role of privilege was a big one.

259
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And then really like actually starting to listen to people that were not comfortable with this style of marketing.

260
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And then, and then my own education in like unlearning persuasion.

261
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Yeah.

262
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Oh, I love that.

263
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Success is a state, not a symbol.

264
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Most of what you're calling ambition is just cortisol with a calendar.

265
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In the show notes, grab the free video and worksheet to build habits around the state of success, not the symbols.

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Real success isn't the title, the income, the abs.

267
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It's the capacity to actually be present for the life those things were supposed to buy you.

268
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Get the link in the show notes.

269
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So with that unlearning, you know, is there now when you read, is there like a phrase in, you know, a launch copy that you go, oh, and if so, what would you replace it with?

270
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Yeah, I think the thing...

271
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that's really important that I teach in my programs is like, it's not about like one strategy or one phrase being like a bad strategy.

272
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Like, like I'll, I'll just to answer your question, like I'll give you, um, I'll give you a example of something that I was like, oh, that's, this is like really gets my goat.

273
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Um, I was reading a sales page and it came to the end and,

274
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And it was like, you know, a pitch for like some business program that's going to make you rich.

275
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And the end, like under the sales button, it was like, even if you have to take a loan or like put this on your credit card or like this, even if you can't afford it, like this, like this is the time to like take a bet on yourself.

276
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And I was just like, that made me feel so bad.

277
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I was like, this person is dead to me.

278
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But it is actually really rare that I see one thing.

279
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Like, please keep in mind, like, I have so many years of understanding my green and red flags around marketing that I can see one sentence and also see the whole ecosystem of beliefs that went into that one sentence.

280
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But, like, you know, when I see, like, there are just certain groups that are, like, more vulnerable.

281
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Like, if you think about, you know, women experiencing infertility.

282
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Like that is, you know, that's a vulnerable sector and to use internet marketing on them would not be appropriate, but equally vulnerable, not maybe not equally differently.

283
00:23:41.751 --> 00:23:57.782
Also vulnerable are like the many, many people in the world who are so crushed by their jobs, but like such a deep longing for something like to have, to do work that has meaning, um, like to spend more time with their children, like the

284
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That I do consider like a lot of the people who are targeted by internet marketing are quite vulnerable.

285
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And so any message that tells them like to close their eyes and not look at their finances, I have very little patience for that.

286
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And on top of that, like most business programs like don't talk about profit and loss.

287
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Like they don't actually focus.

288
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It's all about how much revenue is gonna come in.

289
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So I feel a little protective of these like, people who I've been serving for a long time.

290
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But, but to coming back to where I started, like, I think it's really dangerous to start saying like this, this thing is bad.

291
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The countdown timers are bad.

292
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Scarcity is bad.

293
00:24:42.242 --> 00:24:43.483
Testimonials are bad.

294
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Like, no, it's, it's more like this confluence of all of those things at once that turn into a system that is predatory.

295
00:24:52.411 --> 00:24:52.511
Yeah.

296
00:24:54.074 --> 00:25:02.500
So I love that, that thinking about the system, because I've been thinking a lot about how to build a CRM that makes sense for me.

297
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Because one of the things that I've struggled with is to do a lot of the classic CRM tracking.

298
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And with AI and all of these amazing tools, I'm like, oh, I can build my own one that completely makes sense to my own brain and the way I think about people and my relationships with people.

299
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And so I'm building one that is a planetary system because my nickname as a child was sunshine.

300
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And so I like the idea that people are orbiting around me and the closer they get, the more intimate we are or the more money they're spending.

301
00:25:33.222 --> 00:25:39.767
So whether it's personal relationships or, and I also don't vibe in any deep way with hierarchy.

302
00:25:39.847 --> 00:25:41.228
I'm much more of a sort of cynic model.

303
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So this idea of movement and that people can move between these orbits makes sense to me.

304
00:25:46.612 --> 00:25:55.621
And as you were thinking of describing that and thinking about this, the sort of ecosystem, which is why I brought up my CRM is that it inherently has a living component to it, right?

305
00:25:55.961 --> 00:26:05.329
Based on what's happening in the world, what's changing, who are the vulnerable people, what is your level of education as, you know, as a business owner, as a consumer and so on.

306
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For somebody who has, you know, kind of has an awareness of consent, but has never really thought about how to bring that into their business.

307
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And the fact that you've just sort of flagged it as this whole ecosystem.

308
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Where do you suggest newbies, beginners start with this so that they can start to make and implement changes that are in alignment with this way of operating a business?

309
00:26:31.074 --> 00:26:31.374
Hmm.

310
00:26:32.214 --> 00:26:32.775
Great question.

311
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I really think.

312
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Um, you know, one of the like most disastrous aspects of colonialism is how much we are cut off from our bodies and from the land and, um, how much we're taught to like override our bodies, like work harder, be more productive.

313
00:26:52.217 --> 00:26:55.500
Like, I really think the number one thing, um, yeah.

314
00:26:56.788 --> 00:27:05.773
is when your body gives you a signal that like that doesn't work for me, like to listen and investigate further.

315
00:27:06.193 --> 00:27:11.536
And that is no small thing because there are very, like I'm not the only teacher.

316
00:27:11.917 --> 00:27:22.002
There are other people out there, but most people like particularly, like a lot of my customers are like, they're coaching, they're wellness or wellness adjacent.

317
00:27:22.042 --> 00:27:24.464
Like they are people who are,

318
00:27:25.657 --> 00:27:28.160
trying to help others be well and help the world be well.

319
00:27:28.861 --> 00:27:34.867
And they are like this type of marketing that they are taught, like it doesn't work for them.

320
00:27:35.748 --> 00:27:41.755
And there's not that many places that, you know, often they'll just have to go really slow and find their own way or else

321
00:27:43.020 --> 00:27:49.203
override their own knowing and like build this machine that they're told to do.

322
00:27:49.423 --> 00:27:59.388
And it might work, it might not work cause it's hard to get, like, it's hard to really, like, let's just say you build this like classic webinar funnel with like, you know,

323
00:27:59.888 --> 00:28:04.270
fast action bonuses and countdown timers and all the, all, like all the bells and whistles of persuasion.

324
00:28:04.950 --> 00:28:09.452
Um, and you build it perfectly like, but you're not like energetically behind it.

325
00:28:09.492 --> 00:28:13.154
Like you're not going out into the world being like, come to my free class.

326
00:28:13.254 --> 00:28:21.037
Like you're not going on podcasts saying like, oh my gosh, I just recorded this like incredible masterclass that you can get it at blah, blah, blah, blah, you know?

327
00:28:21.477 --> 00:28:28.540
So oftentimes, like even if you can create the marketing to actually bring people there, you will get stuck somewhere along the way.

328
00:28:28.968 --> 00:28:30.149
because you know what you know.

329
00:28:30.470 --> 00:28:40.641
So that is step one is like listening and like do not let some coach tell you that you have a mindset problem.

330
00:28:40.961 --> 00:28:46.347
Like what if you don't have a mindset problem or what if it's yes and like, is there another way?

331
00:28:48.253 --> 00:28:49.634
Hmm.

332
00:28:49.654 --> 00:29:07.925
I love that because it really it plays into as well the, the, you know, a lot of the work that I do with my clients around, you know, the sort of internal regulation, the in the inner leadership that we have to do if we're going to hold space for others, sell to others, work with others, go on stages, because, you know, our energy is contagious.

333
00:29:07.965 --> 00:29:11.467
And I think a lot of us forget that sort of energetic control.

334
00:29:11.587 --> 00:29:13.828
contagion, right?

335
00:29:14.068 --> 00:29:20.792
And creating space and pauses to do that, I think is vital.

336
00:29:20.892 --> 00:29:34.759
And I think the way you describe the importance of space to reflect on that, you know, I've recently had a situation in my personal life where I'm doing some reflecting on that and doing a lot of

337
00:29:35.479 --> 00:29:42.125
ooh, was that my intuition or was that over reactivity because I have ADHD and RSD?

338
00:29:42.185 --> 00:29:48.751
So that sort of passing out the, you know, is that an intuitive, energetic misalignment for me?

339
00:29:49.351 --> 00:29:52.875
Or is it something that I have to take more personal responsibility for?

340
00:29:53.475 --> 00:29:55.577
And, you know, what I'm hearing you say is...

341
00:29:56.858 --> 00:30:14.387
the large part of this process is the, you know, the going within, figuring out what you feel, understanding your reactions, and then going out in the world and doing it and then noticing, like, I wrote that copy, I created that thing, but I'm having it struggle to sell it because what?

342
00:30:14.527 --> 00:30:14.808
Why?

343
00:30:14.928 --> 00:30:16.288
Is there some misalignment there?

344
00:30:16.388 --> 00:30:16.648
Right?

345
00:30:16.969 --> 00:30:18.890
And it says the play, right?

346
00:30:19.690 --> 00:30:19.910
Yeah.

347
00:30:20.070 --> 00:30:28.438
And often it's like, I mean, I've been in business for 10 years, so I have some experience like reading the signals of my body.

348
00:30:29.010 --> 00:30:34.653
And there's two feelings that are really similar, which is like, ugh, something's off here.

349
00:30:35.213 --> 00:30:39.735
And like, oof, this is like, I'm coming up against my edge and this is really hard.

350
00:30:40.456 --> 00:30:46.538
And that, like when you're new, like everything's new, like everything's an edge, everything's hard.

351
00:30:47.139 --> 00:30:52.281
And so it can take time to distinguish between those two feelings.

352
00:30:52.982 --> 00:30:55.223
And just as a note here, like,

353
00:30:56.183 --> 00:30:59.406
Often the way you learn is through making mistakes.

354
00:31:00.387 --> 00:31:02.829
And that's really important.

355
00:31:02.889 --> 00:31:10.235
I think what makes us more likely to be successful in business is how fast can you come back.

356
00:31:10.335 --> 00:31:12.096
Grieve your failures.

357
00:31:12.476 --> 00:31:14.118
Yes, get the lessons.

358
00:31:14.578 --> 00:31:18.381
But you have to keep coming back and fail at more stuff.

359
00:31:18.722 --> 00:31:24.646
Actually, I was just watching Kung Fu Panda with my children.

360
00:31:25.727 --> 00:31:27.749
And Mr. Miyagi.

361
00:31:27.769 --> 00:31:30.492
Oh, that's no, that's the other Kung Fu movie.

362
00:31:30.532 --> 00:31:31.733
It's not Mr. Karate Kid.

363
00:31:32.153 --> 00:31:32.974
That's the Karate Kid.

364
00:31:33.094 --> 00:31:35.996
OK, just give me one second here because I wrote it down.

365
00:31:36.117 --> 00:31:36.757
It's so good.

366
00:31:37.117 --> 00:31:38.098
Master Shifu.

367
00:31:38.699 --> 00:31:43.944
He says, if you only do what you can do, you'll never be more than you are today.

368
00:31:44.944 --> 00:31:47.547
So, you know, that's like so real.

369
00:31:48.901 --> 00:32:02.716
and you you know I'm just I'm a real advocate for like going keep moving and like make the mistakes learn the lessons keep moving and like yeah we also have to like let go of some of the shame of that because it is normal and that's how we get our best lessons

370
00:32:04.837 --> 00:32:10.578
Yes, yeah, 100% about the taking action and the fact that we learn most from our mistakes, right?

371
00:32:10.718 --> 00:32:10.919
Yeah.

372
00:32:10.979 --> 00:32:12.779
And I think the shame piece is really interesting.

373
00:32:12.819 --> 00:32:28.243
Like one of the things that I've had to do a lot of work around and I've, you know, really noticed is often a theme in my clients is, you know, when we have these physiological reactions and we have these nervous system reactions, when our breathing changes and our heart rate changes, when we, you know, have that...

374
00:32:29.217 --> 00:32:32.038
not to feel ashamed of it as well, right?

375
00:32:32.058 --> 00:32:36.259
There's the understanding it and passing out, is it an edge or is it an ick, right?

376
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:47.442
And then deciding to act on it, deciding to communicate to the relevant people, whether it's a person you're dating, a kid, a client, or whatever it is, figuring out how to share that thing.

377
00:32:47.722 --> 00:32:51.323
But passing out the, this is my body's reaction, right?

378
00:32:51.683 --> 00:32:57.225
And having that is not something to be ashamed of, it's what you choose to do or not do with it.

379
00:32:57.765 --> 00:32:57.985
Right?

380
00:32:58.045 --> 00:33:08.331
That's the bigger piece of that, which I think is, you know, for me is a really big part of the story too, because we can get really bogged down in the, why did I do or not do the thing, right?

381
00:33:08.971 --> 00:33:09.971
Yes, absolutely.

382
00:33:10.472 --> 00:33:12.373
Yeah, I think a lot about shame.

383
00:33:12.833 --> 00:33:15.975
And I think it's one reason why we need business groups.

384
00:33:16.055 --> 00:33:22.258
We need to like be in masterminds and be in programs where we're in relationship, spending time with other business owners.

385
00:33:22.838 --> 00:33:40.743
So we can just like talk about that stuff and normalize it because that that has been a big part of my job is like so many people who come through my programs and they're like, oh, all these programs I took and I didn't like maybe I implemented and I wasn't successful or maybe I didn't even open it.

386
00:33:41.283 --> 00:33:49.425
I'm like re-educating people like, OK, first of all, like if your evergreen funnel like is only breaking even like that's considered a success.

387
00:33:49.945 --> 00:33:52.907
So like back it up a second because it didn't make a million dollars.

388
00:33:52.927 --> 00:33:55.189
Like it's breaking even your success.

389
00:33:56.389 --> 00:33:59.572
Second thing, like 99% of the time, those things fail.

390
00:33:59.712 --> 00:34:02.033
So the fact that you got it there is like pretty amazing.

391
00:34:02.454 --> 00:34:08.137
Also, like all this education about persuasion is like, literally, it is not your fault.

392
00:34:08.458 --> 00:34:15.002
Those programs that you have that you never opened, like those bad decisions you made about spending, like this information that.

393
00:34:15.302 --> 00:34:16.663
is not really out there.

394
00:34:17.283 --> 00:34:25.129
So like, you know, giving people space to just like forgive themselves and know that this is all very normal.

395
00:34:25.189 --> 00:34:26.810
Like we need those spaces.

396
00:34:26.850 --> 00:34:34.135
Like that really is kind of, I think my job, I don't think about myself as a coach, but other people do think of me as their business coach.

397
00:34:34.455 --> 00:34:40.319
I think it's a big part of my job is just normalizing that and like helping people move on.

398
00:34:40.379 --> 00:34:42.060
Pick yourself up, move on faster.

399
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:43.361
Right, right.

400
00:34:43.761 --> 00:34:46.062
And figuring out how, as you say, how to do that.

401
00:34:46.082 --> 00:35:00.571
And, you know, I think one of the ways that I often think about this as, you know, when we can have the difficult conversation, we can then create repair.

402
00:35:00.611 --> 00:35:02.472
We can repair and move on.

403
00:35:02.612 --> 00:35:11.057
And hopefully then, you know, the bone heals thicker and stronger or like Kintsugi, you know, has the beautiful gold glue to stick it together.

404
00:35:11.538 --> 00:35:11.658
And

405
00:35:12.118 --> 00:35:35.715
figuring out that cycle and how to move through that cycle more quickly each time it happens so that you can move towards your big goal your your idea of what success looks like yeah oh this is so juicy so i you know one of the themes that i'm really noticing you know that sort of threads through um uh our conversation and the way you work and show up in the world tarzan is

406
00:35:36.335 --> 00:35:41.500
The comfort you have with iteration and kind of pulling back and going, this isn't working.

407
00:35:41.540 --> 00:35:42.221
What about this?

408
00:35:42.622 --> 00:35:48.267
Diving in, stepping back, diving in, trying out and almost like, you know, I have a thesis like this.

409
00:35:48.447 --> 00:35:49.188
Let me try this out.

410
00:35:49.709 --> 00:35:50.249
That didn't work.

411
00:35:50.269 --> 00:35:51.190
I gather the data.

412
00:35:51.430 --> 00:35:52.231
Let me reframe.

413
00:35:52.251 --> 00:35:53.112
Let me reorient.

414
00:35:53.172 --> 00:35:59.115
rather than going, this is the way I've done it for 10 years, this is the way I've done it for five years, or this is how one does this thing, right?

415
00:35:59.395 --> 00:36:14.063
You seem very comfortable with this process of iteration, which, you know, in the world we live and work in, seems to be a really vital skill set so that we can move with the times, right?

416
00:36:14.083 --> 00:36:19.266
Things are just getting faster and more confusing, complicated, busy, right?

417
00:36:19.286 --> 00:36:22.208
I love the way that that theme has emerged.

418
00:36:22.428 --> 00:36:22.508
And

419
00:36:24.040 --> 00:36:29.144
I would love to sort of move towards wrapping up, but I have a sort of concluding question about that.

420
00:36:29.624 --> 00:36:32.566
Is that inherently who you are, Tarzan?

421
00:36:32.706 --> 00:36:42.293
Did you just come into the world being somebody who goes, let me try this, let me try this, let me climb on the cupboard, let me try and get the sugar out from this one, let me do it when my mum's in the bathroom because she's in the bathroom longer than dad is, or you know, right?

422
00:36:42.433 --> 00:36:45.435
Or like, what happens when I do this with my kid or at my job or whatever?

423
00:36:45.595 --> 00:36:52.800
Or is this something that you've really actively cultivated as a skill to be successful in the work that you're passionate about?

424
00:36:55.028 --> 00:37:00.111
Well, you know, I have this like ongoing joke with my email subscribers.

425
00:37:00.511 --> 00:37:02.132
I've been writing a newsletter for 10 years.

426
00:37:02.252 --> 00:37:03.793
It's really like the core of my business.

427
00:37:03.853 --> 00:37:05.274
It's the thing that I'm the best at.

428
00:37:05.354 --> 00:37:06.915
Like I love writing emails.

429
00:37:06.995 --> 00:37:07.795
I'm very good at it.

430
00:37:08.776 --> 00:37:09.957
I'm also very good at teaching it.

431
00:37:10.637 --> 00:37:11.698
But I like...

432
00:37:13.339 --> 00:37:18.881
I'm sure maybe eight years ago, I was like, and now I'm Tarzan version 2.0.

433
00:37:19.601 --> 00:37:23.143
And then every year, it's like, next version of Tarzan.

434
00:37:23.323 --> 00:37:24.503
Next version of Tarzan.

435
00:37:24.563 --> 00:37:28.805
And my email subscribers have been with me through like, oh, first.

436
00:37:30.986 --> 00:37:35.891
like 10 years ago was like, oh, I have this baby and like, I'm just starting my business.

437
00:37:35.931 --> 00:37:39.394
And then year later it's like, oh no, I'm pregnant.

438
00:37:39.414 --> 00:37:40.555
Like, what am I gonna do?

439
00:37:40.675 --> 00:37:43.238
Like, ugh, now there's another baby.

440
00:37:43.318 --> 00:37:49.483
And like, now she's getting divorced and like now she's in a throuple and like now she's doing this singing thing.

441
00:37:49.524 --> 00:37:54.188
Like, it's been, I think, this is what I think it is, Tamsin.

442
00:37:54.942 --> 00:38:04.130
like the heart of what I do, even though it's not on my sales pages and this isn't how I bring people in, but like I am a storyteller.

443
00:38:05.090 --> 00:38:11.856
And so much of my business is like, this sounds egotistical, but it's like, it really is like the story of Tarzan.

444
00:38:12.657 --> 00:38:22.345
And so many people in my world, like they have been on my email list for 10 years, or they like bought a program that was about something like completely different

445
00:38:22.705 --> 00:38:32.849
Because I brought them, let's say 10 years ago, you bought a program from me about how to, I taught a program about freelancing 10 years ago.

446
00:38:33.369 --> 00:38:37.250
And now you're coming to my October retreat that's about singing.

447
00:38:37.850 --> 00:38:47.414
It's like, there will be those people, but I brought them along with me because I've been weaving this beautiful story for 10 years.

448
00:38:48.094 --> 00:38:50.675
And I have an ongoing joke with my,

449
00:38:51.455 --> 00:38:54.556
my friends, which is like, we'll do it for the subject line.

450
00:38:54.936 --> 00:38:55.156
Yeah.

451
00:38:55.276 --> 00:39:13.280
Like, you know, I'm just thinking about like when I was in, I was running a retreat in Italy this spring and one of my clients, we had this little tiny Fiat and we had to get like 10 people to the restaurant and we didn't want to do three trips.

452
00:39:14.060 --> 00:39:17.601
So my one client, she's like, I'm going to get in the trunk.

453
00:39:18.101 --> 00:39:21.262
She's like, trust me, I've done this before.

454
00:39:21.282 --> 00:39:24.943
Like, this is how I went to Kegger's when I was like 16 years old.

455
00:39:25.483 --> 00:39:28.144
And I got this picture of her like in the trunk.

456
00:39:28.904 --> 00:39:31.425
And, you know, then we got everyone to the restaurant in two trips.

457
00:39:31.485 --> 00:39:32.945
But I think about stuff like that.

458
00:39:32.965 --> 00:39:34.586
That's like, I'm doing it for the story.

459
00:39:35.246 --> 00:39:39.667
And so it's and it's not like the most effective way of being a business owner.

460
00:39:39.707 --> 00:39:42.448
Like, I, you know, I'm so jealous of my business.

461
00:39:43.188 --> 00:39:47.392
colleagues who have like one offer that they've been selling for like eight years.

462
00:39:47.452 --> 00:39:49.293
And that's just like the one thing they do.

463
00:39:49.373 --> 00:39:50.854
I'm like, Oh, salivating.

464
00:39:51.215 --> 00:39:57.520
Um, but I'm like, I'm here to like live the story of Tarzan, like wherever it leads me.

465
00:39:57.720 --> 00:40:00.823
And next I, since I know we're wrapping up here, so I'll just say like,

466
00:40:01.951 --> 00:40:06.076
You know, I'm going down this new path, like of singing.

467
00:40:06.717 --> 00:40:08.900
And I mean, I've been singing all my life.

468
00:40:08.980 --> 00:40:13.666
Like I went to music school at university, like I'm a piano player.

469
00:40:13.686 --> 00:40:17.491
You know, I'm like, this is like so at the core of me.

470
00:40:18.028 --> 00:40:27.076
And it really unexpectedly came to the surface and came back out after my brother died last year in 2025 in the spring.

471
00:40:27.676 --> 00:40:34.762
And that grief of that really cracked me open and opened up a new path for me to follow.

472
00:40:34.982 --> 00:40:42.408
And yes, I am that child that's like, let me look in this cupboard that just opened, because this looks like something really important is here.

473
00:40:42.929 --> 00:40:46.472
And maybe I will get to a place one day where I have arrived

474
00:40:47.017 --> 00:40:48.438
and this is what I do now.

475
00:40:49.099 --> 00:40:52.863
But it's too soon to tell I'm only 41.

476
00:40:55.946 --> 00:40:57.627
Thank you so much for sharing.

477
00:40:58.228 --> 00:41:01.771
This has been such a life-giving conversation and I,

478
00:41:02.952 --> 00:41:27.974
hope that people take away from this some actions and insights around starting to implement consent and creativity and curiosity and you know following the breadcrumbs to to create the story because there isn't just one way to do this in this world and be successful so thank you so much Tarzan for joining me on this episode of Hot Habits with Dr Tamsin

479
00:41:28.755 --> 00:41:29.757
Thank you, Tamsin.

480
00:41:29.877 --> 00:41:38.031
If your listeners want to follow the story of Tarzan, I do write a newsletter every week, which you can find on my website, tarzank.com.

481
00:41:40.845 --> 00:41:41.225
That's it.

482
00:41:41.885 --> 00:41:42.406
That's the pitch.

483
00:41:43.726 --> 00:41:44.466
Thank you, lovely.

484
00:41:44.506 --> 00:41:45.827
And I'll put it in the show notes.

485
00:41:46.287 --> 00:41:46.547
Great.

486
00:41:46.987 --> 00:41:47.227
Great.

487
00:41:47.387 --> 00:41:48.128
Thank you so much.

488
00:41:48.708 --> 00:41:49.888
Thanks for being here.

489
00:41:50.328 --> 00:41:52.629
And thank you for taking the time to listen.

490
00:41:52.889 --> 00:41:59.212
Until next time, remember that the way you lead your inner world shapes how you lead on the outside.

491
00:41:59.532 --> 00:42:01.012
I'm Dr. Tamsin Aster.

492
00:42:01.192 --> 00:42:02.833
Thanks for listening to Hot Habits.