Is Manipulation Actually Bad? with Peter Swain

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Is manipulation bad if it's consensual and it gets you exactly where you want to go?

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That was part of the conversation that Pete Swain and I just had on episode 11 of Hot Habits with Dr. Tamsin.

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We also talked about the fact that for the first time in human history, a 19 year old woman of color has access to the same raw power as the richest white man on the planet.

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That's not hype, that's parody.

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And it's happening now.

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Brilliant.

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blunt and occasionally inappropriate.

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This is Peter Swain.

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Join us for the conversation.

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Your nervous system sets the tone.

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Your energy speaks before you do.

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How you show up is the culture.

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I'm Dr. Tamsin Aster and this is Hot Habits, Conscious Leadership in Action.

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Ladies and gentlemen, buckle the fuck up.

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Our next guest has spent three decades standing at the front line of every tech disruption you've lived through, the dawn of the internet, the rise of AI, and probably whatever is coming next to make your job title obsolete.

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He's trained leaders at Microsoft, Apple, Google, and I shit you not, Jamie Oliver, which tells you that this man can make anyone future-proof, including somebody who just wants you to eat your fucking greens.

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He's blunt, he's brilliant,

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He's occasionally inappropriate, and I know this firsthand because the first time I met Pete, he clocked me as British in about four seconds flat and used it as an excuse to tease me mercilessly.

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Classic move.

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Charm as a weapon.

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I could have been offended.

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Instead, I was hooked because I love interacting with people who are willing to have idea sex.

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Later that night, I watched him float between five tables at once.

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A table of total AI newbies building their first Rosetta Stone, a table of writers building a book, and everything in between.

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Solving problems, reading the room,

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catching the exact moment someone's ego or fear was about to derail their progress, me included.

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That kind of EQ paired with that kind of IQ, dangerous in the wrong hands.

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Lucky for us, his wife, who is one of my most favorite people in the world, and his two kids have pointed him towards using his powers for good.

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He calls it execution over excuses.

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I call it the guy who'll make you actually do the thing that you've been talking about.

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And I see it every week in his mastermind.

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Please welcome the destruction strategist himself, Pete Swain.

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Wow.

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I want to put you in my pocket and carry you to intro me everywhere.

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That was amazing.

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I love that.

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When people say, I'll do the intro, I'm like, oh no, as they read the first paragraph of the website.

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That was awesome.

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I'm already glad I'm here.

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Thank you, Pete.

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I'm very glad to have you.

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So at the start of every hot habits conversation, I asked my guests to bring an object with them, something that is a tangible representation of a hot habit in their lives.

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It's a way of bringing leadership out of theory and into everyday reality.

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So tell me, what object have you got, Pete, and why did you choose it?

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Well, this is the latest one.

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I've actually got six of these now.

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but it's this.

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So it's a company called, and I'm not affiliated with them, but I'm going to give them a shameless plug.

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It's called the Conqueror Challenge, and you pay them like 40 bucks, and you go on their website, and you choose a physical medal, and you then walk a bunch of steps, and when you walk the distance on the medal, they send you the medal.

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So this is a 70-mile medal, and it's a 50-mile medal,

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there's a 100 mile one down there there's a 50 mile one down there and I'm now averaging one of these a week oh my god amazing

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Um, so yeah, and what I found that they do is I have like four loops.

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I have a small loop, like a five minute loop that I can walk.

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Then I have a 20 minute loop and I have a 30 minute loop and a 50 minute loop.

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And the start of one is the midpoint of the next.

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So what these have done is they turn the five minute walk into the 10 minute.

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Cause I got to the halfway point.

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I'm like, okay.

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I could just do the next bit.

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And they've really helped me, as you're playing into the narrative, they've helped me form that habit of, well, I've gone from being somebody that didn't walk to being a walker.

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We've gone through values and beliefs and we've landed, almost finished landing on, it's now part of my identity, which is what I was after.

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Amazing.

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And that's just the way to do it too, because, you know, if you, if you put it on, like, I'm going to run a marathon when the marathon's done, it's like, what next?

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But by making it, you know, a value system, I am a walker, right?

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Rather than necessarily a distance or a final goal, it becomes ingrained in a way that it doesn't often when you just set it on very specific things.

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So.

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Yeah.

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I think that, and you know, this space way, way better than me, but,

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From being a behavioral marketeer, my study has been on how to manipulate humans, either for good or bad.

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Most of it was bad, but nowadays it's good.

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And the kind of mantra I always had is we have some of the most sophisticated hardware, but we're running software that is 100,000 years old.

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Yeah.

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If you show somebody a picture of a saber tooth tiger attack on Facebook, the same part of the brain lights up as if they see a saber tooth tiger in the wild.

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Yeah.

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We're not skilled at this modern world.

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So my kind of realization from that was that I can hack other people's brains with marketing.

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I can, I can make them go, Oh, that's a great idea.

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I'm like, yeah, it wasn't your idea.

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It was my idea.

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But that also means that I can do that to myself.

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Yeah.

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So I spend a lot of time and energy trying to manipulate myself.

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Okay, that's really juicy.

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So this idea of manipulation, which has a negative context, but you've just explained how you can also use it in a positive way.

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So... My wife manipulates me all the time.

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And I don't think of it as a negative... Maybe I, you know, we talked about this about disruption and cursing, and maybe it's a...

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an artifact that's left over from that where I choose to use the more inflammatory word because I want people to question the word, the intent themselves, what their relationship with it is.

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But to me, manipulation doesn't have to be a bad thing.

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It's certainly a...

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I would say it's the power to change somebody else's viewpoint, opinions, or actions without their consent.

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Yeah.

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I think that's probably what manipulation is.

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And I think Liz manipulates me all the time.

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I think I manipulate her all the time.

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I certainly manipulate my clients, my community all the time.

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And I think that's okay if the other person is a willing participant.

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If they've consented to be part of that relationship.

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Yeah.

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If children, no.

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Strangers off the street, no.

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Yeah.

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Online marketeers, you're dialing this and saying, oh, your bank account just got hacked, so just $70,000.

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Obviously, no.

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Yeah.

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Although quite successful.

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But no, bad idea.

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Sorry, bad idea.

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Bad business.

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Bad business.

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Don't do that.

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But yeah, I think manipulating yourself of going, okay,

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What do I need in order to become the person I want to be?

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How can that be a bad thing?

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So that sort of speaks to one of the quotations that you often throw at us, I think probably every week in your mastermind.

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Knowledge is power, execution is power.

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So my question for that is where did that come from?

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Did you have a moment where there was a specific failure or of yours or a client's and you just thought people are still there's this sort of stuck place, which I see all the time in my work.

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People theoretically know, right?

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But it's then like, how do we shift into action?

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So where did that come from?

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I honestly don't know where it came from except

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Yeah, I can't, I don't know when it appeared.

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It's been around for decades of, I was once told that, because I did an EQ test once.

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And I, first of all, why do they measure EQ out of 160?

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Like that's the most stupid thing in the world.

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Like normalize it to a hundred or something.

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But anyway, and I have a perfect EQ.

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I have a 160 out of 160 EQ and they didn't believe it.

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So they redid the test and I got 159 and they redid it again and I got 160.

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Okay, you have a perfect EQ.

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But Liz would tell you,

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and I think correctly, that I understand emotions logically, but I don't understand them emotionally.

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Okay.

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I don't feel the emotion, but I can logically see the emotion.

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So, like, if somebody cheats on their husband with an older man,

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I'm willing to bet you thousands of pounds that their dad left when they're young or their dad passed away, or they have an older brother that died.

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I'm like, and they go, yeah, but my situation's different.

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I'm like, you're not special.

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You're not a special snowflake.

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Your experience of the world might be different to mine, but the way my brain processes information and the way your brain is pretty much the same.

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We have systems in the brain that do very specific jobs.

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And the fact that you,

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If you had, I'm probably lingering on this too much, but if you'd said to me, oh, they cheated with a 20 year old hunk, I'd be like, yeah, that makes sense.

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But if you cheat with your 40 year old husband with a 70 year old, I'd be like, there's something going on there because there's no way you can tell me that he's as sexy as the poor boy.

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Come on now.

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Like, why are we doing this?

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So.

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To me, if you look at that, it's when people say, oh, but I don't know how to do it.

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I was like, well, of course you don't know how to do it.

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You haven't done it.

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So that argument can be logically deconstructed in point one of a second.

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Well, I can't do it because I don't know how to do it.

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Well, of course, that's why we do it.

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We don't do it.

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when we do it when we don't know, knowledge is the reward for the execution.

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You do the thing and you do it badly in order.

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And I used to run these online weight loss things for women.

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I used to love doing it, I was paid to do them, it was great.

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And I always start with the same thing of like, why do you wanna lose weight?

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Put it in the chat and people put, oh, so I can play with my grandkids and da da da da.

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And I would say, it's really funny to me that none of you said, cause you want your ass to look good in a pair of jeans.

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Not one of you said that.

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All of you gave these big esoteric reasons

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And my point to the disruption was, if you lie to yourself, there's very little that you can do to motivate yourself.

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Yeah.

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Whereas if you tell yourself the truth, and yes, I'm not saying what they're saying was a lie.

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I'm sure they did want to play with their grandkids.

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I'm sure they did want vitality.

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But I also know that the human condition wants, needs people to check you out.

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maybe not in a disrespectful, horrible, sleazy way, but there isn't a human alive that doesn't want to feel wanted, loved, doesn't want to feel sexy.

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I don't believe that exists.

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Yeah.

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Because it's a base human need.

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So if you start by identifying the full spectrum of who you are as a human and what lights you up and what fires you up, then you can work on it.

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Because it's not that they don't want to do it because they don't know how to do it.

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They don't want to do it normally because they're scared of looking really stupid when they screw it up.

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And there's a release.

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I can feel it inside me.

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Even to just saying it, it loses its power.

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And that's what I'm trying to get people to.

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I'm trying to get people to say, yeah, but Pete, I'm terrified I'm gonna look stupid.

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To which I can go, I got you.

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Yeah, yeah.

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We'll do this.

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How do we do this?

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How do we help you with that?

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Cause that's the truth.

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Yeah.

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This, I don't know how to do it thing.

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That's the lie that's protecting you and protecting your ego.

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And the book that I wrote was called, You Can Be Proud or Rich.

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The whole point was you're either protecting your ego, which is about pride.

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Oh, I didn't do it because I can't do it because, or you're open to feedback and you're open to suggestions and you can review your own behavior when you screw up.

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And that's what makes you rich.

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That's what gives you a great relationship or great money or a great business or great health.

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I think we spend, lots of people spend so much time

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protecting their ego because they can't handle their reality.

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So, basically you're pushing people in this sort of disruptive way, but the goal is for people to be just deeply truthful to themselves, right?

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Which you see in places like, you know, AA.

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And my friends, when I am in a state of pain,

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my friends who are in active recovery and have spent years in those sorts of environments.

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I also see it with my friends who are in BDSM communities where they spend a lot of time, you know, having to have those sort of awkward difficult conversations about what do I really want versus what do I think I want versus what you say you want.

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Right.

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Or,

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I also say it in a lot of sort of spiritual communities, the sort of Buddhist ones I practice in, where if you can't be fully truthful with yourself, if you're not willing to excavate deep below and get into that muck, you can't actually change how you show up.

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You can't change how you think, you can't change how you feel, you can't change what you do.

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And you have to be willing to get in there and kind of go...

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But yes, and back to that willing participant,

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If somebody tells me they don't want to be successful, I will lay off them.

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Like I'll be like, okay, cool.

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You just want to hang around?

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Yeah.

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You want to high five?

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Like when Liz and I got married, there was this one moment that kind of defines our marriage of she turned around as we were going out and said, does my ass look big in this?

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And I said, you should go and get changed.

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And she said, you have about 10 seconds to say something else before I walk out.

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I went, okay, sure.

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How about this?

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Every time you walk in a room, my heart skips a beat because I think you're the most insanely beautiful woman ever.

220
00:14:53.539 --> 00:14:59.562
But if you're already at the stage of doubting yourself after you've spent an hour doing your makeup and an hour doing your hair and choosing the outfit,

221
00:15:00.362 --> 00:15:01.763
I would rather you go and get changed.

222
00:15:01.843 --> 00:15:04.565
And I would rather you feel the way that I feel about you.

223
00:15:04.605 --> 00:15:06.186
I'd rather you feel that way about you.

224
00:15:06.826 --> 00:15:09.588
And if that means I need to delay dinner, I will.

225
00:15:09.988 --> 00:15:12.110
If that means I need to book a new restaurant, I will.

226
00:15:12.490 --> 00:15:15.312
And if that means I need to buy the fucking restaurant, I will.

227
00:15:16.112 --> 00:15:21.156
Because I want you to leave this house feeling the way about yourself I feel about you.

228
00:15:22.957 --> 00:15:24.618
But I have never...

229
00:15:26.627 --> 00:15:27.007
checking.

230
00:15:27.468 --> 00:15:30.049
I have never lied to Liz, not once.

231
00:15:30.770 --> 00:15:34.192
But I have said a few times, do you really want to ask that question?

232
00:15:37.254 --> 00:15:43.538
And I have answered questions with an untruth that she has asked me to say.

233
00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:49.742
She has said, I just need you to tell me that I look great.

234
00:15:50.762 --> 00:15:51.903
And I'll go, you look great.

235
00:15:54.025 --> 00:15:55.686
You look fantastic, amazing.

236
00:15:55.906 --> 00:15:59.247
And I'll find a truth within what I'm saying that I still believe to be true.

237
00:15:59.868 --> 00:16:00.148
Yeah.

238
00:16:00.168 --> 00:16:00.968
Because she always looks great.

239
00:16:01.609 --> 00:16:10.653
But I, so this, the demeanor that you often see where I'm pushing people and prodding people is on the assumption they actually want to win.

240
00:16:12.494 --> 00:16:17.896
And it's not the economy, it's not Trump, it's not the Republicans, it's not the war in Iran.

241
00:16:18.416 --> 00:16:21.578
The problem in your life, if you're listening to this or watching this is you.

242
00:16:23.301 --> 00:16:25.042
you are the glass ceiling on your life.

243
00:16:25.662 --> 00:16:27.363
100% personal responsibility.

244
00:16:27.584 --> 00:16:33.968
So, and even if that isn't true, it's the most empowering belief that you can hold.

245
00:16:34.629 --> 00:16:35.429
Yeah.

246
00:16:36.330 --> 00:16:40.633
So I want to help people be the person they want to be.

247
00:16:41.474 --> 00:16:46.577
And if you can just start by saying, yeah, I suck at this, or I'm really scared of this.

248
00:16:47.198 --> 00:16:50.360
And I get confused by people saying,

249
00:16:51.812 --> 00:16:59.054
I get confused that people don't understand they're a human being, not a human doing, because everybody seems to evaluate themselves on what they do, not who they are.

250
00:16:59.894 --> 00:17:06.656
And if you evaluate yourself on what you do, then yeah, if you screw something up, that is a mark on the wrong column.

251
00:17:07.496 --> 00:17:14.038
But if you evaluate yourself on who you are as a human and how you show up, then it doesn't matter that you screwed up.

252
00:17:15.878 --> 00:17:17.579
Because humans are fallible.

253
00:17:18.275 --> 00:17:18.936
Yeah, right.

254
00:17:18.996 --> 00:17:20.958
And being able to own that is part of the journey.

255
00:17:21.078 --> 00:17:21.939
But not even part of the journey.

256
00:17:21.959 --> 00:17:24.021
That's the thing that makes us juicy and fun.

257
00:17:24.041 --> 00:17:24.942
Yes.

258
00:17:25.002 --> 00:17:25.182
Right?

259
00:17:25.783 --> 00:17:36.814
Because my, again, sorry, I know that we've got great questions, but my mental model of this is if you were in a car going down the road and there was no warning lights and there was no bad sound, you'd carry on driving.

260
00:17:37.434 --> 00:17:37.715
Mm-hmm.

261
00:17:38.255 --> 00:17:44.558
The time you turn off the road is when you get a blinking light or there's a vibration in the wheel or whatever it might be.

262
00:17:45.378 --> 00:17:49.180
I think that is the best analogy I have of how I see personalities develop.

263
00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:50.341
Okay.

264
00:17:50.521 --> 00:17:53.182
I don't think when something goes right, you don't change.

265
00:17:54.523 --> 00:17:55.463
Because why would you?

266
00:17:56.003 --> 00:18:01.366
If you have the best relationship of your life, you're having the greatest sex ever, why would you change what you're doing?

267
00:18:01.426 --> 00:18:03.467
You do carry on doing the same thing.

268
00:18:04.687 --> 00:18:05.568
So change...

269
00:18:06.540 --> 00:18:09.881
in my model therefore comes from the stuff that didn't go the way you want.

270
00:18:10.921 --> 00:18:23.663
Change comes from the traumas that you went through, not necessarily the big T traumas, but the little T traumas, which means if you like even a sliver of yourself, it was built on all the stuff that went wrong.

271
00:18:23.683 --> 00:18:24.683
Yeah, yeah.

272
00:18:25.383 --> 00:18:34.665
So I wanna do more stuff wrong, so I can grow more and be more and do more and serve more and have a bigger, better, brighter, bolder life

273
00:18:35.825 --> 00:18:39.587
So bring the cock ups up as quick as possible.

274
00:18:39.607 --> 00:18:40.307
I want more of them.

275
00:18:41.968 --> 00:18:42.748
So I can learn.

276
00:18:43.468 --> 00:18:43.708
Yeah.

277
00:18:44.129 --> 00:18:44.369
Yeah.

278
00:18:44.609 --> 00:18:44.849
Right.

279
00:18:45.129 --> 00:18:48.130
We don't learn without friction is really what you're saying, right?

280
00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:56.774
One of the guests I had talked a lot about this, like how our world is being created so that we don't have friction, right?

281
00:18:56.974 --> 00:19:00.656
It drives me insane at the moment of this,

282
00:19:02.137 --> 00:19:03.138
I'm sorry to anyone.

283
00:19:03.158 --> 00:19:03.519
I'm sorry.

284
00:19:03.619 --> 00:19:04.539
I'm not educated on this.

285
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:05.380
It's just my opinion.

286
00:19:06.001 --> 00:19:11.526
But again, it comes down to this aggressive use of being able to reframe pronouns to me.

287
00:19:13.507 --> 00:19:15.329
And I understand I don't understand the subject.

288
00:19:15.529 --> 00:19:17.451
So I'm sure there's people that have researched it better.

289
00:19:17.471 --> 00:19:25.418
But my limited worldview of my opinion is we should be turning around to teenagers saying, yeah, you're confused.

290
00:19:26.218 --> 00:19:27.740
Because it's really confusing.

291
00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:28.000
Right.

292
00:19:29.059 --> 00:19:31.781
And it's okay to just be confused.

293
00:19:31.801 --> 00:19:36.303
You don't have to pick yourself up and put yourself in another bucket because you're confused.

294
00:19:36.323 --> 00:19:38.805
You can just be in this bucket and be confused.

295
00:19:40.045 --> 00:19:46.409
And I'm not saying that applies to everybody, but we've swerved so far the other way.

296
00:19:47.309 --> 00:19:56.094
A friend of mine runs an alternative school in New Jersey, or an old friend because they don't talk to me anymore, because they had this soccer tournament.

297
00:19:56.114 --> 00:19:57.095
And I said, oh, who won't?

298
00:19:57.943 --> 00:19:59.925
And they said, oh, we don't keep score.

299
00:20:00.746 --> 00:20:02.628
And I said, I didn't ask if you kept score.

300
00:20:02.648 --> 00:20:03.208
I said, who won?

301
00:20:03.228 --> 00:20:04.489
She said, but we didn't keep score.

302
00:20:04.509 --> 00:20:11.436
I'm like, whether you kept the score or not does not change the fact that one team scored more goals than the other.

303
00:20:12.017 --> 00:20:12.257
Yeah.

304
00:20:12.357 --> 00:20:13.178
Somebody won.

305
00:20:13.598 --> 00:20:14.459
Somebody lost.

306
00:20:15.500 --> 00:20:17.402
It's like, why are you so hell-bent on this?

307
00:20:17.542 --> 00:20:18.623
Because of a couple of things.

308
00:20:18.823 --> 00:20:18.983
One...

309
00:20:19.830 --> 00:20:21.191
The failure is feedback.

310
00:20:21.291 --> 00:20:24.133
The loss allows for feedback.

311
00:20:24.193 --> 00:20:28.515
It allows the team that lost to understand that they need to improve on certain areas.

312
00:20:28.535 --> 00:20:32.117
You're removing the data point from the experience.

313
00:20:33.078 --> 00:20:33.978
Problem number one.

314
00:20:34.499 --> 00:20:38.221
Problem number two, the rest of the world doesn't work like that.

315
00:20:39.122 --> 00:20:47.487
So when these 12-year-old kids, let's say one of them ends up working for me, if they don't do their job, I'm going to fire them.

316
00:20:47.507 --> 00:20:48.087
What?

317
00:20:49.350 --> 00:21:00.515
And when they get fired, if they take a long jump off a short bridge, it was your fault because you're supposed to teach them that it ain't all going to go their way.

318
00:21:01.135 --> 00:21:02.195
Sometimes they're going to win.

319
00:21:02.675 --> 00:21:03.856
Sometimes they're going to lose.

320
00:21:04.336 --> 00:21:05.637
And both are okay.

321
00:21:06.457 --> 00:21:07.317
That's what you're supposed to do.

322
00:21:07.337 --> 00:21:08.918
You're not supposed to remove the loss.

323
00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:12.720
You're supposed to teach them that loss is okay.

324
00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:18.262
And you're critically failing them because you're removing the friction.

325
00:21:19.545 --> 00:21:21.507
Humans need friction.

326
00:21:21.767 --> 00:21:23.088
That's how we grow.

327
00:21:23.108 --> 00:21:23.968
Yeah.

328
00:21:25.109 --> 00:21:29.211
It's insane to me that we're trying to remove all of that.

329
00:21:29.272 --> 00:21:32.253
Some of the other day on stage said to me, I said I was fat.

330
00:21:33.454 --> 00:21:37.077
And they said, I'm really not comfortable with you referring to yourself that way.

331
00:21:38.517 --> 00:21:42.300
And I was like, can you, I said to the host, one of my team, can you throw them off the call, please?

332
00:21:43.283 --> 00:21:45.188
And everyone's like, well, I'm like, just get out.

333
00:21:45.870 --> 00:21:47.594
We'll refund you, just leave me alone.

334
00:21:48.275 --> 00:21:52.546
Because if you think that I'm not, I'm not even allowed to insult myself.

335
00:21:53.550 --> 00:21:56.173
Well, but it's also... And it's factually correct.

336
00:21:56.433 --> 00:21:58.395
I was going to say the factual correct is interesting.

337
00:21:58.415 --> 00:22:02.599
I mean, this reminds me of when my marriage ended 12 years ago and I said, my marriage failed.

338
00:22:02.779 --> 00:22:04.541
And people kept saying, but it didn't.

339
00:22:04.561 --> 00:22:05.622
You've got these three lovely children.

340
00:22:05.642 --> 00:22:06.823
And I'm like, no, no, no.

341
00:22:07.183 --> 00:22:08.364
The marriage failed.

342
00:22:08.605 --> 00:22:10.947
I'm not saying I'm a failure or, you know, right.

343
00:22:10.967 --> 00:22:12.509
I'm just saying we are divorced.

344
00:22:12.569 --> 00:22:13.710
That means the marriage failed.

345
00:22:14.130 --> 00:22:14.571
Yeah.

346
00:22:14.631 --> 00:22:14.771
Right?

347
00:22:14.791 --> 00:22:15.211
By proxy.

348
00:22:15.231 --> 00:22:15.772
You know.

349
00:22:16.312 --> 00:22:16.592
Right?

350
00:22:16.933 --> 00:22:23.397
And I think that's also partly the kind of issue around like the mental models we use for all of this, right?

351
00:22:23.678 --> 00:22:42.551
And how we think about education, because, you know, this is a little bit of a tangent, but I just love the way the conversation is going, is I have felt for many years that we are not helping our children by teaching them how to regurgitate information, because we can access information everywhere.

352
00:22:42.571 --> 00:22:44.533
What we really need to do is teach people how to think,

353
00:22:45.193 --> 00:22:46.935
How to evaluate information.

354
00:22:47.055 --> 00:22:47.915
Where does it come from?

355
00:22:48.016 --> 00:22:48.736
Is it accurate?

356
00:22:48.776 --> 00:22:49.917
How do I integrate it?

357
00:22:50.337 --> 00:22:51.618
And how to be emotionally intelligent.

358
00:22:51.638 --> 00:22:54.981
How do I have conversations and interactions with real human people?

359
00:22:55.301 --> 00:22:56.242
How do I listen to people?

360
00:22:56.262 --> 00:22:57.563
How am I connected to you?

361
00:22:57.603 --> 00:22:58.564
How do I respect you?

362
00:22:58.604 --> 00:23:00.505
How do I show you that I love you?

363
00:23:00.525 --> 00:23:01.806
How do I care for you, right?

364
00:23:01.926 --> 00:23:04.508
Success is a state, not a symbol.

365
00:23:04.989 --> 00:23:08.512
Most of what you're calling ambition is just cortisol with a calendar.

366
00:23:09.192 --> 00:23:15.554
In the show notes, grab the free video and worksheet to build habits around the state of success, not the symbols.

367
00:23:16.074 --> 00:23:18.915
Real success isn't the title, the income, the abs.

368
00:23:19.295 --> 00:23:23.916
It's the capacity to actually be present for the life those things were supposed to buy you.

369
00:23:24.717 --> 00:23:26.497
Get the link in the show notes.

370
00:23:27.818 --> 00:23:29.018
When we think about

371
00:23:30.290 --> 00:23:37.375
what we're doing now with AI, and we're fundamentally shifting the world we're living in.

372
00:23:38.135 --> 00:23:47.462
One of the things I think is really, as with all of these tech evolutions, all these new things that are created, you get these people who just show up, and I know you call them AI tourists, right?

373
00:23:47.542 --> 00:23:49.083
I just called them something a little bit more rude.

374
00:23:49.103 --> 00:23:49.943
Apologies, everybody.

375
00:23:49.984 --> 00:23:52.025
I think you're probably more accurate than I am, but yeah.

376
00:23:52.905 --> 00:23:58.307
But you know, who are trying to sell us into programs and having been in the online space for many, many years.

377
00:23:58.608 --> 00:24:08.531
One of the things that has always been upsetting to me is when people make these bold promises and statements about things which are not backed by data by repetition by fill in the blank right.

378
00:24:10.232 --> 00:24:15.254
One of the things that attracted me to what you do is the sort of ethical underpinnings, right?

379
00:24:15.294 --> 00:24:26.300
That you donate money to end child trafficking in your business as a way of, you know, thinking about making the world a better place and actually not just thinking about making the world a better place, like actually trying to actually make the world a better place.

380
00:24:27.360 --> 00:24:34.884
When you sort of look at what is happening with the way that AI is being sold right now, what...

381
00:24:36.224 --> 00:25:03.262
trend or behaviour do you think or not do you think makes you just want to throw your laptop across the room and just be like I'm done I'm done That is a great question, the first one that really annoys me is the inaccurate the comparisons so what I mean by that is people say yeah but AI hallucinates 25% of the time we're like humans lie 15% of the time and they're like what?

382
00:25:03.322 --> 00:25:05.644
I'm like I'm not saying you're not correct, you are correct

383
00:25:06.492 --> 00:25:16.976
But isolating one variable and taking it out of the comparison is lying through statistical anomaly.

384
00:25:16.996 --> 00:25:25.920
I don't know what it's called, but the sentence, AI hallucinates 25% of the time sounds horrific, until you remember that humans do it as well.

385
00:25:26.600 --> 00:25:27.181
Right.

386
00:25:28.021 --> 00:25:32.643
And then we talk about like, oh, AI can't only has a limited context window.

387
00:25:34.283 --> 00:25:39.664
You go and sit in a four-hour meeting working at Intel or Microsoft and tell me you can remember everything in that four-hour window.

388
00:25:40.365 --> 00:25:42.805
You two have a limited context window.

389
00:25:42.885 --> 00:25:46.346
You can't remember and process that much information.

390
00:25:46.586 --> 00:25:50.447
And AI is actually bigger than humans by about a factor of 10.

391
00:25:51.407 --> 00:25:54.488
So that's the first one is the inaccurate comparisons.

392
00:25:54.508 --> 00:25:55.668
That drives me insane.

393
00:25:56.648 --> 00:25:58.769
Then the second one is the tourists, which is the tourists.

394
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.320
And it's actually the people that buy what they sell as well.

395
00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:23.488
So there's a guy, my favorite one at the moment, as you know, is this guy that he has an N8N automation, which is like an automation platform with some AIE stuff in it, that he claims will double your money every 10 days by buying stuff on Facebook Marketplace and then flipping it back online.

396
00:26:23.848 --> 00:26:26.409
So it looks on Facebook market, it buys the thing.

397
00:26:27.029 --> 00:26:32.811
When it buys the thing, it does research for pricing, it buys the thing and then it automatically relists it at a higher price.

398
00:26:33.331 --> 00:26:34.132
Got it, okay.

399
00:26:35.312 --> 00:26:37.333
Here's the problems with that statement.

400
00:26:37.913 --> 00:26:44.735
Number one, if you had a system that doubled your money every 10 days, I don't think you'd sell it to anyone.

401
00:26:48.016 --> 00:26:51.498
So I could just leave it, I could just say the end.

402
00:26:51.878 --> 00:26:52.318
Mic drop.

403
00:26:53.387 --> 00:26:58.852
If you had it, just anyone that's listening, if you had that system, would you sell it to anyone ever?

404
00:26:59.553 --> 00:27:00.614
In fact, the answer is no.

405
00:27:01.014 --> 00:27:07.240
Second one is because you would be listening to this podcast because you'd be sitting on a beach in Bali because you'd be a trillionaire.

406
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:08.381
That's problem number one.

407
00:27:08.441 --> 00:27:15.847
Problem number two, if you were to take $100,000 and double it every 10 days for eight days, you'd have more money than Africa.

408
00:27:17.188 --> 00:27:19.851
And apart from quantitative easing, which happens

409
00:27:20.513 --> 00:27:23.635
unfortunately, a bit more often than it should, but doesn't happen every single day.

410
00:27:24.375 --> 00:27:26.116
The money flows in a system.

411
00:27:26.316 --> 00:27:27.317
It doesn't get invented.

412
00:27:27.977 --> 00:27:30.919
You can't, as an individual, have more money than a continent.

413
00:27:30.999 --> 00:27:32.140
It doesn't work that way.

414
00:27:33.060 --> 00:27:40.405
Number three, if this system was true, Facebook would shut it down because the whole principle of the market would stop working.

415
00:27:41.105 --> 00:27:46.988
Number four, somebody would shoot you in the middle of the night because you just broke capitalism.

416
00:27:47.529 --> 00:27:49.710
There is no way that this can be true.

417
00:27:50.632 --> 00:27:50.832
Yeah.

418
00:27:51.392 --> 00:27:54.994
And it pains me on two sides.

419
00:27:55.194 --> 00:27:58.016
One, that people would be stupid enough to pay him the $19.

420
00:27:59.577 --> 00:28:00.537
That bothers me.

421
00:28:00.797 --> 00:28:06.440
And I saw a thing with like an interview with one of the FBI investigators around Bernie Madoff.

422
00:28:08.001 --> 00:28:09.582
And this investigator was fascinating.

423
00:28:09.622 --> 00:28:11.543
He said, I feel such pain.

424
00:28:12.502 --> 00:28:15.563
for the grandmas and the retirees, et cetera.

425
00:28:16.323 --> 00:28:18.984
He went, but we aren't talking about one group of people.

426
00:28:19.024 --> 00:28:27.546
We never will, and I think we should, which is the professional funds that invested in him because they knew it was too good to be true.

427
00:28:29.867 --> 00:28:35.328
If you have a modicum of intelligence in this arena, you knew what he was doing.

428
00:28:36.088 --> 00:28:41.150
You may not have proof of what he was doing, but this whole thing grew

429
00:28:42.060 --> 00:28:44.920
because greed overrode intelligence.

430
00:28:46.521 --> 00:28:50.041
And that line stuck with me, greed overriding intelligence.

431
00:28:50.641 --> 00:28:50.841
Yeah.

432
00:28:51.442 --> 00:28:51.662
Yeah.

433
00:28:51.682 --> 00:28:59.183
So I almost don't blame the guy that is selling this NAN automation.

434
00:29:00.023 --> 00:29:03.424
It's the people who are buying it and thinking that it's going to change their lives.

435
00:29:03.464 --> 00:29:11.585
He's making millions because people are willing to put their intelligence on hold for their greed.

436
00:29:12.425 --> 00:29:12.645
Yeah.

437
00:29:13.466 --> 00:29:16.187
And if it's too good to be true, it is.

438
00:29:16.287 --> 00:29:17.048
It probably is.

439
00:29:17.248 --> 00:29:18.849
Yeah.

440
00:29:18.869 --> 00:29:22.251
I mean, there are some universal truths and that's one of them.

441
00:29:22.271 --> 00:29:33.417
So the tourists, but then where it pains me of this ultimate radical responsibility, we haven't actively marketed for the three years because we haven't needed to.

442
00:29:34.338 --> 00:29:39.301
So I'm now taking personal responsibility for everyone in all of those programs and going, it's my fault.

443
00:29:40.170 --> 00:29:46.672
because I didn't actually offer people another alternative because I was too busy helping the people I'm helping and doing what we're doing.

444
00:29:47.292 --> 00:29:55.594
So now I'm saying, how do I go and save all those people from these stupid little shitty programs that are gonna take their money, give them no results.

445
00:29:56.574 --> 00:30:06.297
And I really do think this in this one, it wasn't true in the web or mobile, but in this one it is, lose the time opportunity of learning.

446
00:30:07.802 --> 00:30:12.864
because this train is leaving the station and it's going fast.

447
00:30:14.024 --> 00:30:16.425
You can't go, I'll do this next year.

448
00:30:17.746 --> 00:30:22.507
Now, now is the time to understand this and learn this before it accelerates away from you.

449
00:30:23.808 --> 00:30:33.831
So they haven't just lost the money, they haven't just, but they've lost the month or two months or three months messing around with something that was never going to work.

450
00:30:35.352 --> 00:30:35.552
So.

451
00:30:36.369 --> 00:30:36.569
Hmm.

452
00:30:37.269 --> 00:30:37.530
Yeah.

453
00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:50.355
The next question I was going to ask you, because I think it's really interesting with AI and, you know, I've got, you know, young adult teenagers who are interestingly, their generation seems to be much more anti AI than our generation.

454
00:30:50.975 --> 00:30:58.238
And, you know, there are a number of reasons why, you know, there's the environment, there's the kind of comments around it stifling creativity, et cetera, et cetera.

455
00:30:58.598 --> 00:31:08.973
But one of the things that I'm more interested in those, because I feel like those are sort of easier to address with data and or the sort of practical application of how we're using AI is.

456
00:31:10.973 --> 00:31:13.796
what's in the model they're talking to, right?

457
00:31:14.257 --> 00:31:23.328
And I recently came across Jane Evans and her work, The Seventh Tribe, which is her work on reclaiming feminine narrative and pushing back on centuries of patriarchal story, right?

458
00:31:23.868 --> 00:31:29.535
And one of the things that she's trying to do is build the training set for the next generation of AI.

459
00:31:29.895 --> 00:31:38.637
as in training these systems, these intelligences with female, feminine, queer, black, et cetera, right?

460
00:31:39.157 --> 00:31:46.678
Information, knowledge, stories, data, so that when we are accessing, when we are using, there is a broader base to come from.

461
00:31:47.198 --> 00:31:51.899
So I was curious about your thoughts about that and how can we do it?

462
00:31:51.919 --> 00:31:56.240
Because she's providing a way, she's giving prompts and asking us to go in and do it, right?

463
00:31:56.260 --> 00:31:56.900
That's super cool.

464
00:31:58.047 --> 00:32:03.250
Um, yeah, you just remind I think I think this is anecdotally interesting and on subject.

465
00:32:04.010 --> 00:32:17.336
Did you ever hear of the problem with the the Met Office and crime as to relates to how do you say African Americans, but in the UK, African Americans, UK, people of color in the UK.

466
00:32:17.776 --> 00:32:18.516
Mm hmm.

467
00:32:18.937 --> 00:32:19.657
Do you ever hear about this?

468
00:32:19.697 --> 00:32:21.438
This is just okay.

469
00:32:23.264 --> 00:32:29.266
Windrush generation, we bring people across from the Caribbean to take jobs in England because we don't want to clean our own streets.

470
00:32:31.166 --> 00:32:32.306
Boom, step one.

471
00:32:32.666 --> 00:32:37.428
Step two, we get upset because there are lots of people of color taking our jobs.

472
00:32:37.788 --> 00:32:39.928
They're just the jobs we do want to do, but anyway.

473
00:32:40.648 --> 00:32:41.989
So we fire all those people.

474
00:32:42.669 --> 00:32:46.310
So we now have large areas of unemployment around peoples of color.

475
00:32:47.450 --> 00:32:50.531
Step four, that leads to more crime.

476
00:32:51.408 --> 00:32:52.729
because the people are unemployed.

477
00:32:53.389 --> 00:32:55.631
Step five, this is perfectly logical.

478
00:32:56.051 --> 00:32:58.153
If there's more crime there, we should put more police there.

479
00:32:59.353 --> 00:33:06.398
Step six, because there are more police there, more crime gets reported because the police are really good at reporting crime.

480
00:33:07.339 --> 00:33:10.421
Step seven, this is like a truth story.

481
00:33:10.461 --> 00:33:16.245
50 years later, there's now a narrative that says black people commit more crime than white people.

482
00:33:16.565 --> 00:33:16.765
Mm-hmm.

483
00:33:17.683 --> 00:33:21.906
Because the reported data tells you that that is true.

484
00:33:22.927 --> 00:33:27.029
And somebody went through this whole thing and went, hang on a second.

485
00:33:27.610 --> 00:33:38.778
If you add in the percentage of policemen in the area to the amount of reported crimes, it's actually one for one, completely normalised.

486
00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:47.414
It's if you have 20 policemen, you get twice the amount of crime reported than if you have 10 policemen because the police report the crime.

487
00:33:49.335 --> 00:33:53.057
I say that to say it's the problem of what's in AI.

488
00:33:53.098 --> 00:33:55.099
We have this problem of what's called synthetic data.

489
00:33:56.339 --> 00:34:02.863
So when you put all of the narratives that have ever been said and ever been done into AI and feed it,

490
00:34:04.605 --> 00:34:11.248
At some point, what you have to do is then you have to start making up new stuff to put in it in order to keep training it.

491
00:34:11.468 --> 00:34:11.688
Yeah.

492
00:34:12.329 --> 00:34:15.990
And the stuff that you make up as a general rule comes from what's called synthetic.

493
00:34:16.010 --> 00:34:19.352
So you get the AI to make new data to put into it to do it.

494
00:34:20.212 --> 00:34:26.935
The problem is that that then reinforces the bias that was already present in the data and the bias becomes more acute and more specific.

495
00:34:27.155 --> 00:34:27.476
Mm-hmm.

496
00:34:28.436 --> 00:34:32.178
I would greatly hope that she is successful.

497
00:34:33.235 --> 00:34:45.062
Because I have a sneaking suspicion that the next version of whatever capitalism, I think it's had its time, I think it's about to end.

498
00:34:46.263 --> 00:34:50.985
And people look at me like I'm weird when I say that, but before it was feudalism.

499
00:34:51.926 --> 00:34:52.846
There's the nature of it.

500
00:34:52.886 --> 00:34:55.308
The system evolves as we evolve with it.

501
00:34:56.288 --> 00:35:02.292
And this is very stereotyping, very gender... Again...

502
00:35:03.026 --> 00:35:05.467
I am me, if you don't like me, then don't listen to me.

503
00:35:05.647 --> 00:35:06.167
Simple as that.

504
00:35:07.188 --> 00:35:26.416
I think capitalism rewarded the more stereotypical masculine responses because stuff like empathy, teamwork, communication, team building, leadership, capitalism doesn't reward that.

505
00:35:27.691 --> 00:35:38.753
Capitalism rewards who's the better salesperson, not who left the clients happier, not who got more referrals, who closed the most money.

506
00:35:39.114 --> 00:35:39.314
Yeah.

507
00:35:40.214 --> 00:35:47.455
It rewards a senior developer who writes more lines of code than the other person wrote lines of code.

508
00:35:47.475 --> 00:35:51.376
And those are very stereotypical masculine skillsets.

509
00:35:52.757 --> 00:35:54.117
It does not reward

510
00:35:55.008 --> 00:36:02.794
People that go, well, I only wrote 20,000 lines of code, not 100,000 because I deleted 60,000 because actually they weren't needed.

511
00:36:03.054 --> 00:36:03.234
Yeah.

512
00:36:03.914 --> 00:36:12.201
Which is a much more feminine approach to look at the whole thing and make sense of the whole thing versus doing the thing they're told to do.

513
00:36:13.622 --> 00:36:16.344
And it reminds me of, I read this, I love this.

514
00:36:16.724 --> 00:36:17.444
This is so fun.

515
00:36:17.845 --> 00:36:23.188
They did this set of studies on the leadership thing of building rafts and going across the river.

516
00:36:23.208 --> 00:36:23.749
Yep, yep.

517
00:36:25.405 --> 00:36:27.566
They did them, I think it was like 25 times.

518
00:36:27.686 --> 00:36:30.488
And in 25 times, the men beat the women every single time.

519
00:36:32.128 --> 00:36:35.590
But the definition of a raft was very, very loose.

520
00:36:37.011 --> 00:36:40.892
By the time the guys got across the river, they didn't like each other.

521
00:36:41.132 --> 00:36:42.373
They were swearing at each other.

522
00:36:42.673 --> 00:36:52.498
There were often fist fights, but they did get across the river first and they were holding the oil barrel onto the thing as they just jumped in the water.

523
00:36:53.652 --> 00:37:00.356
But next to the stated definition, build a raft and get across the river, the guys won.

524
00:37:00.697 --> 00:37:01.737
They won, right.

525
00:37:02.898 --> 00:37:10.102
But the women in, I think it was 10 out of the 25, hadn't even started assembling the raft when the guys had already finished.

526
00:37:11.446 --> 00:37:18.894
But the women stayed in touch afterwards, created WhatsApp groups, had team names, knew each other's kids' names.

527
00:37:20.316 --> 00:37:24.581
The building of the raft was not the point to those teams.

528
00:37:24.761 --> 00:37:29.867
It was more about we should do this together, which means there needs to be a we together.

529
00:37:30.325 --> 00:37:30.545
Right.

530
00:37:31.286 --> 00:37:33.769
But it's also- Whereas the guy's like, yeah, let's just get across the river.

531
00:37:33.789 --> 00:37:35.811
But it's also, what's the point of doing the thing?

532
00:37:35.891 --> 00:37:39.214
Are you doing the thing for the immediate goal, the immediate gain, or are you looking for the future?

533
00:37:39.395 --> 00:37:39.635
Right?

534
00:37:40.195 --> 00:37:44.580
So- Don't we all wish that Facebook had some more women around at the beginning of Facebook?

535
00:37:44.620 --> 00:37:47.883
Because maybe we wouldn't have so many teenage suicides on Facebook right now.

536
00:37:48.124 --> 00:37:48.944
Right, right.

537
00:37:49.025 --> 00:37:51.767
Because maybe somebody at the beginning of Facebook should have gone,

538
00:37:52.528 --> 00:37:53.508
Is this a good idea?

539
00:37:54.629 --> 00:37:55.969
Should we actually do this?

540
00:37:57.009 --> 00:37:58.750
And how should we do it if we do it?

541
00:37:58.890 --> 00:38:05.152
Because what happened with a bunch of 20 X-year-old male developers, they're like, yeah, let's do the thing.

542
00:38:06.832 --> 00:38:15.955
So I think having a representation, I found some of your language triggering, but thinking through the words, I think you're accurate.

543
00:38:16.984 --> 00:38:22.787
So I would just like to say, which I think is the binding language, equal representation of all of those groups.

544
00:38:22.807 --> 00:38:29.030
Because I think that, I say that as somebody that feels slightly, like I have to defend the fact that I'm a white male.

545
00:38:29.390 --> 00:38:29.731
I get it.

546
00:38:29.991 --> 00:38:30.171
Yeah.

547
00:38:30.351 --> 00:38:33.052
Like, I am sorry, this is what I was born with.

548
00:38:34.193 --> 00:38:37.855
But that isn't to say that I don't want to see equal representation.

549
00:38:39.093 --> 00:38:51.656
I think it's critically important because I think AI, if it's trained by men on predominantly male data sets, is going to reinforce that thing again and again and again.

550
00:38:52.356 --> 00:39:03.879
And I think we have an opportunity to have a much more equitable future because what AI sucks at, and this is why it's so brilliant, what AI sucks at is soft skill output.

551
00:39:04.774 --> 00:39:09.259
It's not very good at empathy, communication, teamwork, leadership.

552
00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:12.602
It's really good at write the code, do the letter, do the thing.

553
00:39:12.682 --> 00:39:14.264
It's good at hard skill output.

554
00:39:14.925 --> 00:39:20.791
AI is more of a threat to men than it is to women, which is freaking awesome.

555
00:39:21.672 --> 00:39:22.613
That's fascinating.

556
00:39:22.693 --> 00:39:24.355
I hadn't thought about it in that way before.

557
00:39:26.017 --> 00:39:26.577
I love that.

558
00:39:27.098 --> 00:39:39.167
That's really interesting in terms of like the, you know, who you are as a disruptor, but also, you know, what we are stepping into in this next part of the world, in this next iteration, right?

559
00:39:39.427 --> 00:39:51.976
When we ran the hotel tech company, the hotel software company, I don't know what, 10 years ago now, we had three project managers, two were women, one was a guy, and the two women were so much better.

560
00:39:53.402 --> 00:39:56.484
Because they could get the team to do things.

561
00:39:56.544 --> 00:39:58.425
Because the guy would be like, just do this, do that.

562
00:39:58.725 --> 00:40:00.586
It was just regimented.

563
00:40:02.267 --> 00:40:11.631
And the two women that we had spent the time understanding what was going on in the team, how it was working, where the dysfunction was, why these people were actually arguing with each other.

564
00:40:12.212 --> 00:40:18.375
The fact that this person's kid had chickenpox, which means that we need to find new ways to help them through that.

565
00:40:20.136 --> 00:40:20.336
And...

566
00:40:21.586 --> 00:40:23.587
The developers were almost all male.

567
00:40:23.607 --> 00:40:26.028
In fact, they were all male.

568
00:40:27.188 --> 00:40:30.370
They're gonna get removed by AI, but I think the women end up staying.

569
00:40:31.230 --> 00:40:42.215
I think those leadership roles that are bringing teams together and understanding what and why and how and where and when, not just do, do, do, are critical.

570
00:40:42.395 --> 00:40:43.835
And I see that just between me and Liz.

571
00:40:43.935 --> 00:40:47.817
Like, if we wanna get something done, it's on me, not Liz.

572
00:40:49.511 --> 00:40:51.253
because I will just get it done.

573
00:40:51.533 --> 00:40:52.494
You're the executor.

574
00:40:53.295 --> 00:41:04.185
Yes, but where Liz is so valuable is she sees the 18 things that are connected that I don't even understand a part of this topic.

575
00:41:04.665 --> 00:41:06.787
So she's the one mapping the terrain and going,

576
00:41:08.141 --> 00:41:10.202
are you aware of this over here?

577
00:41:10.942 --> 00:41:12.062
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

578
00:41:12.262 --> 00:41:14.643
She's like, no, no, no, not yeah, yeah, yeah.

579
00:41:15.163 --> 00:41:15.904
It's important.

580
00:41:15.944 --> 00:41:16.984
I'm like, why is it important?

581
00:41:17.004 --> 00:41:17.604
She's like, it's important.

582
00:41:17.644 --> 00:41:19.685
I'm like, oh, that's a really good point.

583
00:41:20.845 --> 00:41:23.266
Yeah, cool, got it, go, thanks, done.

584
00:41:24.207 --> 00:41:28.368
So that I think, and I know I'm over stereotyping.

585
00:41:28.388 --> 00:41:29.708
I'm not saying everyone is the same.

586
00:41:29.748 --> 00:41:36.751
I'm saying the average of what I've experienced in my life, women have a greater understanding of the connectivity of the world.

587
00:41:38.002 --> 00:41:40.462
And men are good at blinking that out.

588
00:41:40.562 --> 00:41:42.223
And I think it's anthropological.

589
00:41:43.223 --> 00:41:53.165
I think to throw a spear at something moving 30 miles an hour and hit it, you have to be able to ignore everything but the deer and the spear.

590
00:41:53.425 --> 00:41:55.685
Otherwise, the computation can't work.

591
00:41:56.866 --> 00:42:04.727
And I think women were looking after tribes and children and crops and 100 interconnected things to make sure that society worked properly.

592
00:42:06.706 --> 00:42:10.995
And I think we're going to see this huge rise of empowerment of women in AI.

593
00:42:11.155 --> 00:42:16.206
I think it's amazing because I have a daughter and a son, so I kind of want both of them to have a chance of winning.

594
00:42:17.669 --> 00:42:18.149
I love that.

595
00:42:18.570 --> 00:42:34.323
I think that's a really fun place to end the conversation or wrap up the conversation, which for me, I think one of the threads of this conversation, which I don't think I was expecting, Pete, was the dance between the masculine and feminine.

596
00:42:34.363 --> 00:42:39.248
For me, I think of it more as the energetics rather than necessarily the genders, right?

597
00:42:39.288 --> 00:42:40.829
Like the sort of active and masculine.

598
00:42:42.170 --> 00:42:46.393
I'm not as adjusted, so I struggle to get the right lingo, but that's what I'm referring to.

599
00:42:46.453 --> 00:42:49.175
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

600
00:42:49.896 --> 00:43:10.412
And these, whatever you want to call it, the ends of the continuum or the two extremes that we see in all of our worlds, whether we're talking about the EQ or the IQ, the masculine, the feminine, the good, the bad, all of these ways of looking at what we're doing right now and what you've sort of pulled to the front, I think, in this conversation is,

601
00:43:11.392 --> 00:43:17.979
How can we integrate in a way that really makes sense for everybody involved, right?

602
00:43:18.019 --> 00:43:23.344
And doesn't leave one person out, doesn't leave one group out, doesn't leave one set of skills out.

603
00:43:23.504 --> 00:43:31.472
And part of that whole process, and none of it's really going to work without it, is if we don't get really, really comfortable.

604
00:43:32.003 --> 00:43:35.265
with being brutally honest with ourselves, right?

605
00:43:35.285 --> 00:43:41.470
I had a, ages ago, and it got deleted, unfortunately, I had a debate about racism with a member of the clan.

606
00:43:42.871 --> 00:43:52.698
It was so much fun, because I turned around with the whole thing, I said, listen, I'll just say, you're right and I'm wrong and screw black people if you just play one little game with me.

607
00:43:53.058 --> 00:43:55.680
And he's like, okay, I'm like, so you've got a wife or a daughter?

608
00:43:55.700 --> 00:43:56.781
He's like, I have both.

609
00:43:56.801 --> 00:43:57.241
I'm like, cool.

610
00:43:57.261 --> 00:44:00.444
So if your daughter had breast cancer, and I said, this pill right here,

611
00:44:01.090 --> 00:44:07.015
would save your daughter, no side effects, no money, this, done, don't take it, she dies.

612
00:44:08.236 --> 00:44:09.257
And I went, would you take it?

613
00:44:10.097 --> 00:44:10.718
Would you give it to her?

614
00:44:10.738 --> 00:44:11.719
And he's like, yeah, of course, would.

615
00:44:11.739 --> 00:44:14.221
I'm like, what if it was somebody that was black that had invented it?

616
00:44:15.402 --> 00:44:16.363
Would you still give it to her?

617
00:44:17.804 --> 00:44:19.105
And he's like, well, that's not the point.

618
00:44:19.125 --> 00:44:20.526
I went, that's a yes, right?

619
00:44:21.207 --> 00:44:21.887
And he's like, yeah.

620
00:44:22.167 --> 00:44:23.749
I'm like, you should do some research.

621
00:44:24.990 --> 00:44:25.790
And he went, what do you mean?

622
00:44:26.111 --> 00:44:29.734
I went, there's been many, many studies that social intelligence

623
00:44:30.718 --> 00:44:34.379
is a more important factor in innovation than individual brilliance.

624
00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:36.480
So, and he went, what do you mean?

625
00:44:36.500 --> 00:44:54.386
I went, even if you're correct, which, by the way, I don't think you are, even if somebody of color is less intelligent than somebody that's white, which I patently disagree with, but even if it was true, a hundred people who are less intelligent will invent more than the 10 people who are smart.

626
00:44:55.605 --> 00:44:59.286
And I am telling you that your approach to this doesn't make sense.

627
00:44:59.306 --> 00:45:13.629
Because if you're the CEO of a company and you were to give, say, the men, the desk, the chair, the computer and the laptop and the phone and the women a chair and they had to share a laptop and share a phone, you would be fired.

628
00:45:14.849 --> 00:45:19.230
Because you wouldn't be using the resources to achieve what the world needs to achieve.

629
00:45:20.251 --> 00:45:21.151
And he went, what's your point?

630
00:45:21.211 --> 00:45:21.491
I went.

631
00:45:22.579 --> 00:45:25.241
Who's the best mathematician ever?

632
00:45:25.321 --> 00:45:25.902
And he went, I don't know.

633
00:45:25.922 --> 00:45:27.063
I went, okay, physicist.

634
00:45:27.743 --> 00:45:28.824
And he went, Einstein.

635
00:45:29.084 --> 00:45:29.965
I went, no.

636
00:45:30.926 --> 00:45:31.586
And he went, who?

637
00:45:31.606 --> 00:45:33.768
I went, you never met him because he never had a chance.

638
00:45:35.229 --> 00:45:36.230
Because he was black.

639
00:45:37.651 --> 00:45:38.832
What about the best doctor?

640
00:45:39.132 --> 00:45:44.636
You never met him either because we continually marginalize 80% of our planet.

641
00:45:47.321 --> 00:46:03.472
I'm like, why, if you're going to be a human, if you're going to be a woman or a man or white or black and you're going to breathe and use the resources of the planet, I'd like you to be part of the solution to the big problems that we've got to fix, which logically means screw your beliefs.

642
00:46:03.592 --> 00:46:08.556
Logically just means that you need to be part of the solution, which means we need to give you the tools to help.

643
00:46:10.717 --> 00:46:11.578
I think this...

644
00:46:12.833 --> 00:46:31.797
paradigm shift in technology can be this most beautiful, insane moment for us to empower people because, and I'm sorry, I know you said we'll leave it there and then I carried on, but an African-American 19-year-old girl in a coffee shop now has the same compute power as Elon Musk.

645
00:46:33.167 --> 00:46:34.588
Like, check that out.

646
00:46:34.748 --> 00:46:38.431
Like, what the F just happened?

647
00:46:38.791 --> 00:46:49.198
If you are a 19-year-old kid in a coffee shop, you have the same tool as the most wealthiest man in the world.

648
00:46:50.399 --> 00:46:52.080
That has never happened.

649
00:46:53.722 --> 00:46:58.365
It's always been that access to the thing required the wealth.

650
00:47:00.048 --> 00:47:03.090
So it perpetuated the cycle of strength.

651
00:47:04.410 --> 00:47:07.892
Like people like, where they're like, yeah, the solar panel revolution.

652
00:47:07.912 --> 00:47:09.613
I'm like, you know how much those things cost to buy?

653
00:47:10.434 --> 00:47:14.996
Like, yeah, they might make money over 20 years, but you still had to have a million dollars to buy them in the first place.

654
00:47:15.216 --> 00:47:15.717
Right, right.

655
00:47:16.537 --> 00:47:22.460
This thing, you need a Google Chromebook, a Starbucks membership and a $19 and you're done.

656
00:47:22.821 --> 00:47:23.041
Yeah.

657
00:47:23.841 --> 00:47:24.662
Like, it's amazing.

658
00:47:24.782 --> 00:47:27.643
So I hope people get on board with it and use it and make the world a better place.

659
00:47:29.593 --> 00:47:38.944
On that note, if our listeners could take one thing away from our conversation, Pete, one insight, a shift or an action, a concrete action, what would it be?

660
00:47:41.506 --> 00:47:44.109
I'll do a one and a one A.

661
00:47:44.310 --> 00:47:46.312
Whether you like AI or not, it's not going anywhere.

662
00:47:47.915 --> 00:47:52.658
So you're better being part of the solution than sitting on the sidelines, throwing mud, saying, I don't like it.

663
00:47:53.038 --> 00:47:57.420
So regardless of your beliefs about this technology, it's going to happen.

664
00:47:57.640 --> 00:47:58.261
It's happening.

665
00:47:58.981 --> 00:48:02.983
And the narrative gets shifted from the inside, not from the outside.

666
00:48:03.343 --> 00:48:05.384
So please come and join the conversation.

667
00:48:06.245 --> 00:48:09.407
Number two is just do 15 minutes a day.

668
00:48:09.547 --> 00:48:11.768
Just start with a practice of...

669
00:48:13.073 --> 00:48:19.098
de-technology, de-teching this thing and understanding that you're having a conversation with an intelligence.

670
00:48:19.618 --> 00:48:23.061
It's not a human intelligence, but it is a form of intelligence.

671
00:48:23.821 --> 00:48:33.028
So when you move this from words like prompts and LLMs and rags, and you just move it to just having a conversation, you'll start getting results pretty quickly.

672
00:48:33.228 --> 00:48:35.570
So just go and talk to AI and have a conversation.

673
00:48:36.631 --> 00:48:37.111
I love that.

674
00:48:37.451 --> 00:48:37.952
I love that.

675
00:48:38.072 --> 00:48:40.312
And I love that you've also just said, let's do it.

676
00:48:40.552 --> 00:48:41.133
Create a habit.

677
00:48:41.293 --> 00:48:42.813
Just create a daily habit.

678
00:48:43.173 --> 00:48:44.514
I'm starting to do that, right?

679
00:48:44.634 --> 00:48:45.114
Exactly.

680
00:48:45.854 --> 00:48:46.255
Awesome.

681
00:48:46.815 --> 00:48:47.955
So thank you, Pete.

682
00:48:48.055 --> 00:48:52.397
Thank you so much for joining us today on Hot Habits with Dr. James Adasta.

683
00:48:52.937 --> 00:48:56.845
Thanks for being here, and thank you for taking the time to listen.

684
00:48:57.125 --> 00:49:03.437
Until next time, remember that the way you lead your inner world shapes how you lead on the outside.

685
00:49:03.778 --> 00:49:05.241
I'm Dr. Tamsin Astor.

686
00:49:05.441 --> 00:49:07.084
Thanks for listening to Hot Habits.